Artsy or Fartsy?

[robbins.photo]

Ok, as for the OP - since anything "artsy" gives me gas put me down for a yes vote on both. As for the rest, really folks you might want to stop and think about this in terms of what is appropriate for the venue, not in terms of what is considered "artistic" enough, because truthfully from what I've seen that's what the Ops are actually attempting to evaluate here when it comes to firearms pictures.

I maybe wrong here but if I'm understanding the policy correctly it isn't the quality of the image that determines whether or not it meets the criteria for whether or not it should be posted, but rather does the posting/image itself somehow relate to photography. I don't think they are evaluating these things based on exposure or composition or anything of that nature, rather they are trying to decide if the poster is posting it in a fashion that makes it appropriate for the venue.

Or maybe a more simplistic version, I think the question to ask yourself is are you posting these because they somehow relate to a discussion of photography or are you posting them just so you can start a pissing contest? If you can't honestly say yes to the former, well then you can't really blame the powers that be for taking action on the later.

Just my 2 cents worth of course, YMMV

 

[runnah]

Nice knife, I have the 553 Tanto Griptilian in satin finish. Great knife.

553 Griptilian® Tanto Product Detail

 

[tirediron]

[QIt is; absolutely subjective. I again, I refer you to the use of the word 'seem' from which I expected other readers to infer that I was expressing an opinior rather than absolute fact.

Hmmmmm... I'm confused. Terri said that the moderators decide what's "artful" and what is not. Now you're saying it's subjective...

Hmmm.... I get the feeling someone's being deliberately obstreperous this morning. To clarify: The intent of Terri's statement was that moderators would make decisions about whether certain images were acceptable under the 'artistic firearms' rule. That however too is subjective, since what I see as being artistic or not is going vary from what other moderators see. As well, the intent of that rule, as I'm sure you are aware, is allow greater control over a potentially controversial subject, and NOT to exercise unilateral control over what may or may not be artistic in the true meaning of the phrase.

 

[BrickHouse]

I have a similar shot of broken light through a set of blinds falling on a bowl of fruit. The background is probably cluttered in that one too. I could probably convince a few peope that it was "art". Crappy art, but art nonetheless. I guess I don't believe that the banana instead being a holstered pistol should change that perception. But then again, what do I know, I'm just a guy in uniform that carries one of those evil bang sticks.

 

[Designer]

Art, being subjective, has a wide range of appeal. When we offer a critique on a photograph, some like it and others pan it. As to the issue of firearms, I understand it to be; if the photograph is primarily about the photograph, and not so much about the subject matter, then it is allowed.

(Not a moderator)

 

[TWright33]

Nice knife, I have the 553 Tanto Griptilian in satin finish. Great knife.

553 Griptilian® Tanto Product Detail

Very nice sir.

My next will be another Spyderco with assisted opening.

I have a similar shot of broken light through a set of blinds falling on a bowl of fruit. The background is probably cluttered in that one too. I could probably convince a few peope that it was "art". Crappy art, but art nonetheless. I guess I don't believe that the banana instead being a holstered pistol should change that perception. But then again, what do I know, I'm just a guy in uniform that carries one of those evil bang sticks.

Put the banana in a holster. There will be an eruption of chaos.

 

[TWright33]

but rather does the posting/image itself somehow relate to photography.

I often like to think my photos are photography.....

 

[robbins.photo]

but rather does the posting/image itself somehow relate to photography.

I often like to think my photos are photography.....

Well I think the original point is clear enough and honestly don't see any purpose in a ridiculous argument over semantics.

But in the interest of full disclosure I'm not a mod nor have I ever played one on Tv, so really I have no control over this either way.

Yes, I do find it very sad that such postings so often degenerate into snark so quickly and so often that a policy like that is even necessary. But not a lot I can do about that other than recognize the reality of the situation.

Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk

 

[pixmedic]

maybe changing the TPF policy to allow pictures of guns was a mistake.
before, it was simple. no guns. those threads and/or pictures could simply be deleted with no more justification needed other than citing the forums "no gun" policy.
it was an easy rule to define, and did not leave any grounds for interpretation.

Now however...allowing guns has opened up the Mods to a whole new level of criticism where not only do we have to hear from offended anti-gun people, but also from the people who are offended by the people offended by their gun pictures.

we have put ourselves in a position where we have to brace for the inevitable flurry of reports on any thread containing gun pictures, because no matter how "artistic" the photographers intentions may have been, someone is going to say it needs to be removed. On the other hand, there are also the people that will post random snapshots and defend it to the bitter end claiming it as "art".

so now look what us mods are stuck with... we have to define "art". you all can make whatever jokes or accusations you want, but I assure you, this is a crappy position to be in. no matter what decision we make concerning any gun picture or thread, we are going to catch hell from the opposing side. We have to suffer through the PM rants, reported posts, and even open threads ridiculing us for trying to do the best we can with a seemingly impossible task.


Personally, as much a "gun person" as I am, I think we were better off with the "no gun" policy. there is simply no way to moderate gun pictures without this uproar happening every time someones picture gets deleted. I see no end in sight since there is no way to put a definitive definition on "art".

 

[TWright33]

if the photograph is primarily about the photograph, and not so much about the subject matter, then it is allowed.

(Not a moderator)

I know you're not a mod, and this isn't directed toward you or anyone-

BUT

I hope this isn't the actual mindset behind it.

 

[otherprof]

I think it is a mistake to include in the meaning of "art" the notion of it being good or worth looking at. I want to be able to talk about good art and bad art - which may be subjective - and don't want to paint myself into a corner by including something like "valuable" or "good" in the concept of art. If it is on the wall in a museum, or signed, or titled, or presented as art, it is art. (I think Arthur Danto made these points in his essay "The Artworld.") "Is it worth looking at?" or "Is it worth more than a glance?" is where the disagreement comes in and the food gets thrown. "Artful" is a really puzzling word. Does it mean "well crafted"? That would open another can of worms. Sorry if this is not directly on the point, but I think it is relevant. BTW, my Spyderco Delica was made in Seiki City, where the Samuri swords were made. It is well crafted, and I can use the hole in the blade to easily hang it on the wall and turn it into a work of art.

 

[Designer]

I hope this isn't the actual mindset behind it.

I don't know if I ever read those actual words, but that was my understanding of the general mindset of the administrators when they loosened the rule.

 

[weepete]

The definition of art is pretty difficult to pin down and yes it does have some element of subjectivity. I don't like putting limits on it either as that can also lead us down some dangerous paths.

However one thing that all art has is common is the expression (or attempt) to comunicate an emotion or concept. In photography it can pretty much be split into two camps, what I'd define as traditional or in other words pretty pictures that we like to hang on walls and conceptual, in which the idea behind the picture is what the artist is trying to communicate.

These two shots don't seem to have much of an idea behind them (though I'll admit that I might not be understanding the intent or interperating them correctly) but neithier do the fit the bill of the traditional pretty picture lacking in the elements of design and composition. That's why.

 

[Steve5D]

Personally, as much a "gun person" as I am, I think we were better off with the "no gun" policy. there is simply no way to moderate gun pictures without this uproar happening every time someones picture gets deleted. I see no end in sight since there is no way to put a definitive definition on "art".

If you can moderate photos having to do with nudity, guns should be a walk in the park...

 

[tirediron]

Personally, as much a "gun person" as I am, I think we were better off with the "no gun" policy. there is simply no way to moderate gun pictures without this uproar happening every time someones picture gets deleted. I see no end in sight since there is no way to put a definitive definition on "art".

If you can moderate photos having to do with nudity, guns should be a walk in the park...

Steve: The moderators are volunteers who follow the direction of the website owners. If you don't like the way things are being done, you have two alternatives: (1) Contact the 'site owners and request that they change their policies, or (2) try a different forum with rules more to your liking. I think that overall things work pretty well around here, and as VOLUNTEERS, we on the moderating team do our best to keep a happy balance so that most people are pleased most of the time. I'm sorry that you don't find it to your liking, but as with all things democratic, the needs and wants of the few don't outweigh the needs and wants of the many, and the wants of the owners trump both of those.

This thread also has two choices: It can return to the original discussion, or it can be locked. I'm good either way.