Ask the Rabbi--Chanukah

[Rob]

Oh and I'm always up for a pint. Just head over and give me a shout!

 

[terri35 7]

Oh, Terri!

http://www.ex.ac.uk/german/abinitio/pronounce/
It's on the left with a link to a sound clip with lots of "ch" sounds

You rock, bay-bay! :thumbup: I can't listen to it from work but I will check it out when I get home. Thanks!

 

[jocose]

Ok now here's an assumption... I've always found those guys quite interesting - there's some areas of London (mainly the North West, like Finchley and some bits of the east end) where they are easily the street majority. I take it they're literally interpreting Leviticus 19 regarding cutting the hair at the temples? Just a guess.

It's very funny when you see a young man about seventeen years old wearing those outfits with the curly hair bits and they're talking like "Fahkin ell Dayve mate wot you fink you're doin" proper cockney style... talk about cultural cross-over.

So what are the hats about then, is there a significance to the dress-code as well?

Rob

I thought that Golders Green was the Jewish area?

You are correct about Leviticus (I think). There is also a rule about not cutting the corners of your field (that is where the poor would get their food), and there is some connection between that law and cutting hair/beards. The beards...there is also a law that says you aren't supposed to use a razor on the 7(?) points on your face. Since no one really knows where those point are, they just don't cut at all. Also, just an FYI, the law says razor and not scissors. So, you can trim with scissors. Also, once electric razors were invented, the Rabbis decided that since they work like scissors (with the blades spinning and slicing), there was no prohibition with them, so the less extremists usually use electric razors (but they will still keep trimmed sideburns, usually just to the joint where the jaw attaches).

Your cockney description reminds me of Snatch when Doug the Head meets the Jewish kids in front of his store.

The clothes. There is nothing biblical to them. The Chassidish (or hassidic as some have seen it spelled) was a sect of Judaism that came out of Eastern Europe. There as many different sects of chassidism as there are towns in the Old Country. Every one has a little different traditions (thus variations on the way they wear their sideburns or what clothes they wear. Basically, Jews dress up all nice and spiffy for the Sabbath (friday night to saturday night), for 3 primary reasons: 1) we believe that when we pray, we are before the King of kings, and you wouldn't go to Buck Palace and chat with Liz in jeans and ripped teeshirt, right? So why would you do that before God; 2) there are kabbalistic and poetic interpretations of the Sabbath Queen (again a royality thing); and 3) we believe in making a distinction between the sabbath and the rest of the week. So, the orthodox Jews say that since God is everywhere, then you are before him all the time. As such, the logic goes, you should be dressed nicely all the time. On the sabbath, the Chassidism dress in their finest, which at the time of their creation was a very Russian/Cossack style. Jews modernize slowly (see my comments on Yiddish), so they still wear what they were wearing centuries ago in Eastern Europe. Also, in Judaism, tradition is as strong as law, and once you do something 3 times, it becomes tradition (this is not really a law--I mean if you have a good curry vindaloo for dinner 3 Mondays in a row, I wouldn't say it's a tradition).

Does that help?

 

[Rob]

Yes, that pretty much clears it up!

FYI Finchley and Golders Green are in the same area - the London Borough of Barnet in north west London:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=524500&y=188500&z=5&sv=524500,188500&st=4&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=524500&ay=188500

As you look at the map, the Jewish area starts around Kilburn, goes along the A41 to the arrow at Golders green, goes around the edge of the North Circular Road (A406) pretty much up as far as Friern Barnet, then West pretty much as far as Mill Hill. If you zoom in you can see all the synagogues marked on the map.

I live in Bromley which is off the map to the bottom right (you can just see the letters b r o on the map) I'm off the A21.

Rob

 

[danalec99]

I agree with Alex and Rob. This is great!

More questions to the Cultural Attache ...

Have you been to Israel?
Why don't you grow your beard and curls?
Isn't it haraam (or is it?) to eat non Kosher foods/alchoholic beverages?

 

[jocose]

Yes, that pretty much clears it up!

FYI Finchley and Golders Green are in the same area - the London Borough of Barnet in north west London:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=524500&y=188500&z=5&sv=524500,188500&st=4&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=524500&ay=188500

As you look at the map, the Jewish area starts around Kilburn, goes along the A41 to the arrow at Golders green, goes around the edge of the North Circular Road (A406) pretty much up as far as Friern Barnet, then West pretty much as far as Mill Hill. If you zoom in you can see all the synagogues marked on the map.

I live in Bromley which is off the map to the bottom right (you can just see the letters b r o on the map) I'm off the A21.

Rob

The last time I was in London, I went up there to the Jewish History Museum...it wasn't too bad, and if memory serves correct, the houses there were really pretty cool...to bad I wasn't into photography then.

I think that was the day I ended up at the flea market in Camden.

The Girl and I are looking to travel in the new year. The problem is that I've been to London a ton now, and she has been outside of London a ton, so we're thinking somewhere neither of us have been. We were supposed to go to Paris last summer, but money was a wee issue. I'm still thinking of Paris, or maybe southern Spain/Gibraltar/Moracco. Germany is always cool...I've never been to what was East Germany. When I was in Europe in the 80s, we thought about going, but 3 of the 4 of us had Israeli stamps in our passport, so we decided against it. But Virgin always sends me their deals...last time I went to London, I went on Virigin for $85 each way (that's about £49)...so if I find that deal again, I don't think I can refuse. AND, as I said, I wasn't into photography the last time, and I want to go back and get better pictures of Greengot's Bank. Oh, I mean the Masonic Temple.

 

[jocose]

I agree with Alex and Rob. This is great!

More questions to the Cultural Attache ...

Have you been to Israel?
Why don't you grow your beard and curls?
Isn't it haraam (or is it?) to eat non Kosher foods/alchoholic beverages?

Dan,

I've been to Israel 5 times (sadly it's been about 10 years since I've been back). I don't grow a beard becuase I look awful, I look old, and the Girl doesn't like it. Payot (the long sideburns) are not part of my tradition, so there is no reason for me to grow them.

I don't know what haraam means. I'm assuming it's Arabic for "forbidden"? Yes, observant Jews will only eat kosher food. We have no prohibitions agains alcoholic beverages. We actually enjoy our wine and schnapps!

 

[mentos_007]

The last time I was in London, I went up there to the Jewish History Museum...it wasn't too bad, and if memory serves correct, the houses there were really pretty cool...to bad I wasn't into photography then.

I think that was the day I ended up at the flea market in Camden.

The Girl and I are looking to travel in the new year. The problem is that I've been to London a ton now, and she has been outside of London a ton, so we're thinking somewhere neither of us have been. We were supposed to go to Paris last summer, but money was a wee issue. I'm still thinking of Paris, or maybe southern Spain/Gibraltar/Moracco. Germany is always cool...I've never been to what was East Germany. When I was in Europe in the 80s, we thought about going, but 3 of the 4 of us had Israeli stamps in our passport, so we decided against it. But Virgin always sends me their deals...last time I went to London, I went on Virigin for $85 each way (that's about £49)...so if I find that deal again, I don't think I can refuse. AND, as I said, I wasn't into photography the last time, and I want to go back and get better pictures of Greengot's Bank. Oh, I mean the Masonic Temple.

why not visiting Poland??? you can always visit Kazimierz which is the biggest Jewish city here, I think... and of course you can visit me and Anua

 

[jocose]

why not visiting Poland??? you can always visit Kazimierz which is the biggest Jewish city here, I think... and of course you can visit me and Anua

I have to admit that I've never really thought about Poland. What's cool to see there? Beside you of course?

 

[danalec99]

I don't know what haraam means. I'm assuming it's Arabic for "forbidden"?

yes sir!

 

[mentos_007]

I have to admit that I've never really thought about Poland. What's cool to see there? Beside you of course?

Definitely Kazimierz - it is a wonderful city, very colourful, and Jewish tradition is seen on every corner... Cracow of course - the whole old city... and well... I think that you should avoid Warsaw... it's not beautiful nor it is friendly... but Gdansk (Danzig) is very nice. If you are going for rather "natural' trip, I mean fresh air, green and so on -> Mazury... the north-east part of Poland, full of beautiful lakes and great photo opportunities... and Bieszczady - mountains, in the south-east part of Poland... http://travel.poland.com/

 

[Luminosity]

I'm still not clear on the lineage thing. Does it mean that, seeing as my great-grandfather was Jewish and my great-grandmother was English ( at least I think she was english ) that I cant say I'm like 1/3 ( or whatever the fraction is ) Jewish because I'm linked to it via a male ?

I know ,technically, I can but ....

 

[Luminosity]

Oh and I can't wait to take the dreidel home and teach my nephews how to play it :mrgreen:.

So far, my experience with Jewish traditions has been wonderful. My new family have been great with teaching me about it all and where the traditions come from. Explaining the symbolism of the orange on Passover etc.

I did commit a faux pas the night before Passover though. We had finished dinner and I was helping clean up before we all retired to another room ...when I blew out the candle that had been sitting on the dinner table ( I'm wary of letting a candle burn when no one is in the room ). My mother-in-law to be was good about it though and just explained that it is meant to burn out ( she had said a blessing over it before we ate ).

Ehhhh

 

[jocose]

I'm still not clear on the lineage thing. Does it mean that, seeing as my great-grandfather was Jewish and my great-grandmother was English ( at least I think she was english ) that I cant say I'm like 1/3 ( or whatever the fraction is ) Jewish because I'm linked to it via a male ?

I know ,technically, I can but ....

It depends who you talk to. The reform and reconstructionist movements would say you were part Jewish. I don't mean to sound snobbish or elitist, but I was raised in the conservative movement, and at least when I was more involved, they would say you weren't Jewish. If it was you maternal grandmother who was Jewish, then your mother would be Jewish, and you would be. But since your grandmother was Anglican (I assume), I'm sorry to say that you are not Jewish. (sorry, I meant your great-grandmother, but you get the idea.)

As I said, the reform movement is a little less stringent on the laws and believe that the culture is more important, so if you raise your children in the culture, then they are Jewish (assuming one of the parents is Jewish). My sister who just got married married a Catholic, and the one about to get married is marrying a Lutheran. They don't have it so bad as their children will still be Jewish (in the eyes of the religion). If the Girl and I get married and (God forbid) have children, they are not Jewish, even though I am. Fortunatley, neither of us wants kids.

In the orthodox tradition, it's pretty cut and dry. Sorry.

Hope that helps.


I've never heard orange being important for Passover...what did they tell you was the meaning?

Yes, candles are important in Judaism, and not just for Chanukah. Every friday night we light candles at the start of the sabbath..at least two separate candles. I believe that that is to commerate the double portion of manna that God gave on Friday while the Jews were wandering in the desert. On Saturday night, the last thing you do is a prayer called havdala, and for that you light a candle that is one candle with several wicks. I'm not sure the purpose of that, but it has to do with things separating for the sabbath (the secular and the holy) and then combining again after the sabbath is over (I think).

There is a law that you can't create a spark on the sabbath or holidays (certain ones anyway), which is why she should not have relit the candle (I assume that she didn't).

 

[jocose]

Mentos,

Hmmm, maybe I SHOULD put Poland on my list. I think I would want to go to Warsaw though, just cause of the Ghetto and all of that. Is there anything there commemerating the Ghetto or the uprising?

And what's it like there expense wise? I mean can you travel around cheaply, or would I really need to stay in one city to cut down on costs?