Auto-exposed off-camera flash without TTL + diffused light modifier

daggah

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OK, so my experiments with off camera flash have been with manual flashes and cheap radio triggers, and honestly I've just been winging it as far as power goes. I've just assumed that I didn't need that much power and usually gotten a decent exposure out of guessing 1/64 or 1/32 power from my flashes. But I just watched a Snapfactory video on Youtube where Mark Wallace explained that some of the more advanced flashes actually have their own built-in light meters, so if you tell them what aperture and ISO you have your camera at, they will still fire a pre-flash and determine flash output! You can even trigger normally incompatible flashes (i.e., a Canon flash from a Nikon camera or vice versa.) This mode would work with even the cheap ebay-style radio triggers and still offer automatic flash exposure.

Here's the video for reference:



The main drawback is, the lightmeter on the flash is on the front, so it prevents you from using light modifiers. However, the Photek Softliter is like a hybrid between a softbox and a reflected umbrella, and is available in a large 60" size. So theoretically, you should be able to put a compatible flash in with the front facing forward and the flash head pointed 180* behind and still have the flash able to automatically determine power output!

Has anyone messed with this? I bring this up because Mark Wallace pointed out that this feature is not all that well-known.

For what it's worth, the cheapest flash I've found so far (definitely don't take this as gospel, I'd love to be shown wrong on this!) is the Nissin Di 866 at around $350. So theoretically, for $500 (to account for the softliter, a light stand, and a cheap radio trigger) you could have semi-automatic off-camera flash with a large light modifier.
 
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Looks like the Olympus FL-600R flash also has a built-in light meter...or at least, it looks like it judging from pictures, and it also has a separate "Auto" mode that's distinctive from the "TTL" mode. So if it does indeed have a built-in light meter like I think it does, it'd be cheaper than the Nissin flash.
 
Almost any decent TTL capable flash will have the Automatic Exposure mode you mention (built in light meter, lol!)... that dates back to early TTL days. You can get a Yongnuo for around $150-160. It is not as accurate as true TTL... as it does not measure the light at the sensor. But yea.... photographers have been using this feature since the 70's - 80's!

As far as trying to drive a 60" softliter with a speedlight??? Not really enough power (I wouldn't want to try it even with my SB-900's)... you might could do it in bright ambient conditions as fill, and you better keep it really close to the subject. (Oh.. and yes, I have a 60" softliter... but I use it with MANUAL monolites)

And why use AUTO flash in a static studio situations, when manual is more accurate and consistent?
 
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Flashes are plenty powerful enough for softboxes. It's a myth that you can't illuminate a softbox with a flash. For the Softliter, if you look up customer reviews, you'll find plenty of examples of people using various flashes with them.

As far as why, it's because it's more versatile (if the subject moves) and because I don't have a flashmeter.
 
Flashes are plenty powerful enough for softboxes. It's a myth that you can't illuminate a softbox with a flash. For the Softliter, if you look up customer reviews, you'll find plenty of examples of people using various flashes with them.

As far as why, it's because it's more versatile (if the subject moves) and because I don't have a flashmeter.

Uhh.. you don't need a flashmeter! A little practice and and a test shot or two and you should be able to dial it in. I have a flashmeter, and I seldom use it.. don't need to!

And the accuracy and consistency of Manual flash far outweighs whatever convenience the inaccuracy and inconsistency of AUTO mode may give. You don't sound like you have used flash much.... or you would know that.

If speedlights were that good, all Studios would be using speedlights instead of Monolights / pack heads... speed lights are cheaper than good studio gear. Speedlights are much slower to recycle, get overheated too fast, and lack power for any serious log-term application.

It's also a myth that ANYONE can pick up a camera, and become an instant professional... lol!
 
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You're right, I haven't, and I'm still learning it. I'm merely posting an option that maybe people haven't considered before. There are also smaller, more portable versions of the Softliter as well as your standard reflected umbrella, and this method, as an option, might be pretty good for more fast-paced shoots on the go.
 
You're right, I haven't, and I'm still learning it. I'm merely posting an option that maybe people haven't considered before. There are also smaller, more portable versions of the Softliter as well as your standard reflected umbrella, and this method, as an option, might be pretty good for more fast-paced shoots on the go.

Back in the early 80's, I put together a small portable system (to use at people's houses)... with speedlights and 43" black backed white umbrellas... and it worked pretty well. But for many things, I still would have them come into my studio! The thing is, softboxes and softliters will cost you an additional 1 to 2 stops of light...which means raising ISO. I prefer not to raise ISO whenever possible... so I prefer having more power to drive my modifiers with...

Oh... and don't believe everything you read online... it ain't Gospel! Look at Ken Rockwell's site... Noobs swear by him, Pro's swear at him....
 
What does Ken Rockwell being an idiot have to do with a link I posted from a separate website? I mean, I've heard of ad hominem fallacies, but never one trying to discredit one source by attacking a completely different one. :lol:

We're talking about losing a stop or two of light from flashes that, in my limited experience, when I've used them, are frequently powered way down. OK, so I'll bump up the power a bit. So, what if it's still not enough? I'm supposed to worry about bumping ISO from 100 to 200, or 400?

Really?

Look, like I said before, I posted this because it's one option for controlling off-camera flash photography that people may not be aware of. I certainly wasn't. So maybe if you're not interested in the info and have nothing useful to say, this thread isn't for you?
 
What does Ken Rockwell being an idiot have to do with a link I posted from a separate website? I mean, I've heard of ad hominem fallacies, but never one trying to discredit one source by attacking a completely different one. :lol:

We're talking about losing a stop or two of light from flashes that, in my limited experience, when I've used them, are frequently powered way down. OK, so I'll bump up the power a bit. So, what if it's still not enough? I'm supposed to worry about bumping ISO from 100 to 200, or 400?

Really?

Look, like I said before, I posted this because it's one option for controlling off-camera flash photography that people may not be aware of. I certainly wasn't. So maybe if you're not interested in the info and have nothing useful to say, this thread isn't for you?

Since you know it all already, I suppose my comments are not needed, that is true! Good luck!
 
I've been doing this for years with old Metz potato mashers. You just turn the head around to point into the umbrella and leave the front pointing towards the subject.

It works pretty well but you have to remember that the auto function is like matrix metering (center weighted at best) on your camera in that it accounts for the whole field of view and not the main subject. Fine for general shots but not for serous work, for serous work you need manual control based on precise measurement. (the same goes for Nikon's CLS or any TTL driven system)
 
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