Big Problem =(

[Thru_These_Eyes]

I didn't even think to grab my attachable flash. All I had with me was the flash that is obviously connected to my camera, so the option of bouncing the flash off the ceiling definitely wasn't going to work, right? Thanks for all the advice. I would give my left arm to be able to go back and re-do this entire thing because it was so cool. Dang it!

So purchasing the 50mm 1.8 would be a good idea?

 

[Big Mike]

sorry going to ask a noob qns but what is ISO?

ISO (International Organization for Standards)...In photography, it is the standard rating we give the the sensitivity of the recording medium (film or digital sensor).

To make a photographic exposure, light is recorded by the sensor (I'll stick with digital). The shutter speed and the lens aperture control how much light is let into the camera, where the light is recorded. By turning up the ISO setting, the camera amplifies the signal, allowing you to get your exposure with less light. Just like turning up the volume too high on your stereo will create noise distortion...turning up the ISO on your camera will create distortion in your images...known as digital noise. Newer cameras are getting better at controlling noise...but the rule of thumb is that you want to keep your ISO as low as possible...but there are many times when you will need to turn it up.
As a practical example, when you turn up the ISO, your shutter speed can get faster, while keeping the same exposure level. So in this case, turning up the ISO may have allowed a fast enough shutter speed to freeze the movement of the bar tender. Of course, if there isn't enough light...then turning up the ISO may not be enough.

 

[Montana]

You were shooting at 1/20 shutterspeed, that is your problem. I bet you'll remember your flash next time. Not thinking of taking your flash when going to an indoor shoot is like forgetting your married when you go to a strip club.......things won't turn out good.

Derrick

 

[Big Mike]

I didn't even think to grab my attachable flash. All I had with me was the flash that is obviously connected to my camera, so the option of bouncing the flash off the ceiling definitely wasn't going to work, right?

No, you can't really bounce with the built-in flash. Do yourself a favor and never use the built-in flash.

So purchasing the 50mm 1.8 would be a good idea?

For less than $100...this lens is great. If you have aspirations of being professional, then I'd suggest the 50mm F1.4 instead. It's about $300 but still a great deal for a fast, good quality lens.

 

[Thru_These_Eyes]

You were shooting at 1/20 shutterspeed, that is your problem. I bet you'll remember your flash next time. Not thinking of taking your flash when going to an indoor shoot is like forgetting your married when you go to a strip club.......things won't turn out good.

Derrick

I can more than handle constructive criticism but a little harsh, eh? It was the first time I had ever photographed that particular kind of event and it was a trial and error...which is why I am here....Asking....For Advice....Not for sarcasm. But Thanks anyways Derrick. =)

 

[biancarose]

I once had a problem like this, it was because my hat kept shutting my flash slightly. But I doubt it is the same problem you were having because you said you were not using a flash.

 

[Montana]

Didn't mean to sound harsh...sorry if it came across that way. Sometimes things are lost when typing vs. in person. I appologize.

 

[inTempus]

So purchasing the 50mm 1.8 would be a good idea?

It's a great lens to add to your kit. At $100 or less its easy to justify and it will give you an idea if it will work for you. Keep in mind the lens offers no zoom, you have to step forward and back to frame your shots, but the trade off is a little more sharpness in your images and a lot more light to your sensor at wider apertures.

As Mike said, if you have $350 to spend the 50mm f/1.4 is an even better lens (higher quality build / one more stop of light than the f/1.8). If you get the $100 lens you can sell it for $10 or $15 less than you paid for it on the boards pretty easily and upgrade to the f/1.4 later if you like the 50mm lens.

It's up to you. Most photogs will have a 50mm lens in their kit, it's a very popular lens... they even call it the "nifty-fifty" because of how great it is given the really low cost.

 

[biancarose]

I think the biggest problem is, is that this is not a planned shot. Sometimes you can take random shots, but most of the time you need to plan the senerio out on your screen. Even if the shot was clear, his face was unflattering.

 

[Thru_These_Eyes]

Unfortunately, rent is due today so all I could afford at the moment was the 50mm 1.8 and I am happy with that for now. But $300 is definitely a good deal if you think thats a lens that would be needed in the future and I will certainly make that purchase also.

Again, thank you all for the quick feedback! It's greatly appreciated =)

 

[Thru_These_Eyes]

I think the biggest problem is, is that this is not a planned shot. Sometimes you can take random shots, but most of the time you need to plan the senerio out on your screen. Even if the shot was clear, his face was unflattering.

Completely agree. I had my settings at continuous shooting so I was prepared for some unflattering shots. The picture I posted was probably the worst of them all...let me grab another just to prove that I did plan ahead as much as possible.

 

[bdavison]

It seems like everyones answer to every indoor problem is the nifty fifty...and while its a good choice for some applications, its not the answer to every single one.

There's nothing wrong with your equipment, its how its being used. You need to pull out your camera's manual....and READ IT.

Knowing the camera is the first step to getting good pictures. Having the best lenses in the world wont help you a bit if you dont know how to use the camera.

Here's a rundown of what you should try.
First off, you are trying to capture fast action moving objects, which means you will need a fast shutter speed. For the shot you posted it needs to be around 1/250th or faster.

Second, the lighting is poor, so your options are...
A slow shutter speed - which is inadaquate to capture the action without motion blur.
A fast f/stop - which will let in more light, but also decreases the depth of field
A high ISO - which increases the sensitivity of the film (in digital...the sensor), but also introduces noise into the photo.

Ive said it before, and in instances like these where there is insufficient light, and you dont have/cant use a flash, its better to sacrifice exposure than get motion blur. So underexposure isnt necessarily a bad thing here. You can always adjust things later post-processing to get it brighter.

Here's what Id recommend in that instance.
1. Put your camera in RAW mode. This allows your camera to capture ALL the data, and it doesnt lose information valuable for post processing as it would if it were compressing the information into jpeg format.
2. Put the camera in shutter priority mode. Set the shutter speed to be 1/250th to start. No less than 1/125th. In shutter priority mode, the camera will select the f/stop for good exposure.
3. Id start off with ISO 400 and go up from there if needed.
4. Compose and do your half-press to meter the scene. Watch the exposure meter. If its underexposed...how much? It might be ok if its just a little. If its too dark, bump the ISO up a step and recheck it. If you've hit ISO 800 and its still way to dark, drop your shutter speed down just a tad...dont go below 1/125th.

The slower a shutter speed you use, the more you're going to have to wait for the perfect time to shoot the photo. You will need to wait until as little movement in the subject as possible for the shot. So dont expect to capture the wildest moments.

When you are finished, get the pictures in whatever software you use, and adjust the exposure BEFORE you dump them into post processing or convert to jpeg.

If after all this, you still find that you cant get the shot you want....THEN...its time to start thinking about a faster lens. The good thing is by this point you will have learned your camera, and you're ready for a faster lens.

 

[Thru_These_Eyes]

I have read the manual MANY times. And I always learn something new after reading it...my question now is this...when I change into RAW, I have two raw options... RAW + L or just plain RAW. Which one should I choose and what is the difference?

I'd also like to add in my defense, that reading the manual of the camera doesn't mean that it all makes sense right away. I believe photography is very much a trial and error process when it comes to perfecting the skills. It can be very confusing to learn therefore it may take me reading the manual 1,000 times before it ALL makes sense. I believe I have made great progress thus far and appreciate everyone on here answering my questions. Every response doesn't and shouldn't have to be "Go read your manual." Because sometimes, people just need some advice and guidance. Telling us to go read our manual is like a Trigonometry teacher telling his students to go read the book and expect to understand what they are reading because it's written in a book. That's not how it works. Thank you for the tips and advice, but if you're responses to people on this forum is always going to begin with "Read your manual," then why bother? I don't want to sound unappreciative of the advice, but don't just assume that I haven't read the manual 32 times....literally. I re-read it whenever possible.

 

[inTempus]

It seems like everyones answer to every indoor problem is the nifty fifty...and while its a good choice for some applications, its not the answer to every single one.

Wrong, that's not even close to what has been said here.

I think you need to take a look at her Exif data then get back to us after you review the specs for the XTi. Note: max ISO is 1600. Her Exif data shows an aperture of f/3.5, the fastest for her lens, and a shutter speed of 1/20 to 1/60. All of which produced blurry pictures.

All of the manual reading in the world won't change the fact she had her camera maxed out and the shutter speed still wasn't there.

She asked how to improve this situation, not every situation. My response was tailored to her specific question and was only offered to complement Big Mikes comments which didn't involve the 50mm.

Regardless, the 50mm would have improved this situation if she understood exposure more completely.

There's nothing wrong with your equipment, its how its being used. You need to pull out your camera's manual....and READ IT.

No one said anything was wrong with her equipment. But looking at the Exif data it's pretty clear her lens/camera wasn't up to the task given what she had to work with. If you have some secret recipe for getting ISO 6400 out of an XTi or getting f/2.8 out of a 18-55mm lens, please share it with the class.

Knowing the camera is the first step to getting good pictures. Having the best lenses in the world wont help you a bit if you dont know how to use the camera.

Sound advice. It could have been offered without implying the rest of us are idiots though.

Here's a rundown of what you should try.
First off, you are trying to capture fast action moving objects, which means you will need a fast shutter speed. For the shot you posted it needs to be around 1/250th or faster.

How do you expect her to get to 1/250 when she was at f/3.5 and ISO 1600? Use a flash? She didn't have one.

Second, the lighting is poor, so your options are...
A slow shutter speed - which is inadaquate to capture the action without motion blur.

I'm not sure how this is an option, it looks more like the problem.

A fast f/stop - which will let in more light, but also decreases the depth of field

She was at f/3.5 - she had no further to go.

A high ISO - which increases the sensitivity of the film (in digital...the sensor), but also introduces noise into the photo.

She was at her cameras max, 1600. She had no head room here either.

So what's your solution again?

Ive said it before, and in instances like these where there is insufficient light, and you dont have/cant use a flash, its better to sacrifice exposure than get motion blur. So underexposure isnt necessarily a bad thing here. You can always adjust things later post-processing to get it brighter.

Can be done, but given she was at 1/20 and ISO 1600 I don't think shooting a little left would have saved the shot. I could be crazy though.

Here's what Id recommend in that instance.
1. Put your camera in RAW mode. This allows your camera to capture ALL the data, and it doesnt lose information valuable for post processing as it would if it were compressing the information into jpeg format.
2. Put the camera in shutter priority mode. Set the shutter speed to be 1/250th to start. No less than 1/125th. In shutter priority mode, the camera will select the f/stop for good exposure.
3. Id start off with ISO 400 and go up from there if needed.
4. Compose and do your half-press to meter the scene. Watch the exposure meter. If its underexposed...how much? It might be ok if its just a little. If its too dark, bump the ISO up a step and recheck it. If you've hit ISO 800 and its still way to dark, drop your shutter speed down just a tad...dont go below 1/125th.

Did you look at the Exif data?

If after all this, you still find that you cant get the shot you want....THEN...its time to start thinking about a faster lens. The good thing is by this point you will have learned your camera, and you're ready for a faster lens.

Or you can drop $90 if you have it and have a fast lens in your kit that you can learn how to use, especially if you plan on doing this again soon.



Regardless, she should check out a book like this:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241204970&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera (Updated Edition): Bryan Peterson: Books[/ame]

And try a book like this:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Digital-Rebel-Guide-Photography/dp/1598634569/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241204999&sr=1-2"]Amazon.com: Canon EOS Digital Rebel XTi/400D Guide to Digital SLR Photography: David D. Busch: Books[/ame]

Which is far easier to understand than the sometimes cryptic manual (to a novice).

 

[inTempus]

I have read the manual MANY times. And I always learn something new after reading it...my question now is this...when I change into RAW, I have two raw options... RAW + L or just plain RAW. Which one should I choose and what is the difference?

RAW + L will save two files, a RAW file and a large JPG (minimal compression).

RAW will save just a RAW file.

L will save just a large JPG file.

RAW+L will save both.