Big Problem =(

[Jay5oh]

I think that the problem could be solved using currently owned equipment versus buying another lens.

my $.02

 

[inTempus]

I think that the problem could be solved using currently owned equipment versus buying another lens.

my $.02

I agree, she could have bought her flash.

 

[inTempus]

I'd also like to add in my defense, that reading the manual of the camera doesn't mean that it all makes sense right away. I believe photography is very much a trial and error process when it comes to perfecting the skills. It can be very confusing to learn therefore it may take me reading the manual 1,000 times before it ALL makes sense.

You're absolutely right. It is a trial and error process in my view. I learned far more from shooting than reading. But I did read early on to understand the basics of exposure. Give the books a try that I linked to above. The Understanding Exposure is a GREAT book that everyone starting out should read. The other book is very well written too, I bought one for my 40D back when I was getting started and it helped a TON in understanding how things worked and why.

I believe I have made great progress thus far and appreciate everyone on here answering my questions. Every response doesn't and shouldn't have to be "Go read your manual." Because sometimes, people just need some advice and guidance.

Sometimes people come off as being rude here and don't really mean it. Implying you haven't read your manual and that you're completely lost with your camera probably was over the top but I don't think intentional.

For whatever reason bdavison decided to act like everyone in the thread was a dolt besides him. Maybe he's just having a bad day.

You're doing a great job and if you keep plugging away at it you'll see lots of improvement in your images and understanding in very short order!

 

[biancarose]

Do you have a zoom lenses. Some of those could have come out a lot better if they were framed at a different angle.

 

[inTempus]

Do you have a zoom lenses. Some of those could have come out a lot better if they were framed at a different angle.

She has two zoom lenses. The problem wasn't framing, it's was having a too slow of shutter speed.

Her lens was at its widest angle, which it should have been because if she had zoomed in much at all the aperture would have gotten smaller and slowed her shutter speed down even more.

 

[SrBiscuit]

Wrong, that's not even close to what has been said here.

I think you need to take a look at her Exif data then get back to us after you review the specs for the XTi. Note: max ISO is 1600. Her Exif data shows an aperture of f/3.5, the fastest for her lens, and a shutter speed of 1/20 to 1/60. All of which produced blurry pictures.

All of the manual reading in the world won't change the fact she had her camera maxed out and the shutter speed still wasn't there.

She asked how to improve this situation, not every situation. My response was tailored to her specific question and was only offered to complement Big Mikes comments which didn't involve the 50mm.

Regardless, the 50mm would have improved this situation if she understood exposure more completely.

No one said anything was wrong with her equipment. But looking at the Exif data it's pretty clear her lens/camera wasn't up to the task given what she had to work with. If you have some secret recipe for getting ISO 6400 out of an XTi or getting f/2.8 out of a 18-55mm lens, please share it with the class.

Sound advice. It could have been offered without implying the rest of us are idiots though.

How do you expect her to get to 1/250 when she was at f/3.5 and ISO 1600? Use a flash? She didn't have one.

I'm not sure how this is an option, it looks more like the problem.

She was at f/3.5 - she had no further to go.

She was at her cameras max, 1600. She had no head room here either.

So what's your solution again?

Can be done, but given she was at 1/20 and ISO 1600 I don't think shooting a little left would have saved the shot. I could be crazy though.

Did you look at the Exif data?

Or you can drop $90 if you have it and have a fast lens in your kit that you can learn how to use, especially if you plan on doing this again soon.



Regardless, she should check out a book like this:

Amazon.com: Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera (Updated Edition): Bryan Peterson: Books

And try a book like this:

Amazon.com: Canon EOS Digital Rebel XTi/400D Guide to Digital SLR Photography: David D. Busch: Books

Which is far easier to understand than the sometimes cryptic manual (to a novice).

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

im thinking not everyone who offered a solution read the thread

well done tharms

 

[Montana]

I agree w/ Tharmsen.....good job.

Why comment before downloading the EXIF info....

 

[Thru_These_Eyes]

Tharmsen....THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

Understand Exposure by Bryan Peterson? It's like my bible. I read it almost every night and I am constantly trying to practice everything I learn. If not for that book, I would be so far off.

Thank you for defending me everyone. I know people on here are not trying to be intentionally rude or cruel, but when they are I think its in everyone's right in the forum to let those few people know that it was a bit over the top.

I will definitely pick up that other book you suggested.

And to ALL--I will never leave my flash in my backup case again! I try not to use a flash unless needed. I am generally doing outdoor photographs and this was the first time I had been asked to shoot something indoors with lighting I was inexperienced in. But I thought I could handle it and figure it out by the time my boyfriend was done and be okay for everyone else. I will practice first next time to make sure I have all my settings correct.

Lesson Learned.

=)

You guys are the best....that was like having my big brother's on here!

 

[Thru_These_Eyes]

RAW + L will save two files, a RAW file and a large JPG (minimal compression).

RAW will save just a RAW file.

L will save just a large JPG file.

RAW+L will save both.

Which would you suggest? If I do RAW+L, will I be saving 2 files onto my computer? I have yet to invest in a backup hard drive (that is next weeks purchase.) I would like to choose the option that is safest....Which sounds like having a RAW & JPG would be my best bet.

My camera was set to RAW when I first got it and if memory serves me correctly, I was unable to upload any of the images to facebook or photobucket or any online place like those....

 

[bdavison]

I think you need to take a look at her Exif data then get back to us after you review the specs for the XTi. Note: max ISO is 1600. Her Exif data shows an aperture of f/3.5, the fastest for her lens, and a shutter speed of 1/20 to 1/60. All of which produced blurry pictures.

Actually, only one thing contributed to the blurry pictures. The shutter speed. ISO has nothing to do with blurryness, and the f/3.5's depth of field didnt cause it either.

All of the manual reading in the world won't change the fact she had her camera maxed out and the shutter speed still wasn't there.

I find it hard to believe that any faster than 1/20 given her f/stop and ISO would have resulted in black photo. There appears to be enough light in that scene for a much higher shutter speed. If that was max, Im glad I dont shoot canon.

Sound advice. It could have been offered without implying the rest of us are idiots though.

I didnt imply any such thing. But if that's how you want to take it...wear it with pride.

How do you expect her to get to 1/250 when she was at f/3.5 and ISO 1600? Use a flash? She didn't have one.

This is where reading the manual comes in handy. See there is this little thing called a "pop-up" flash. There is also an adjustment in the camera to drop the EV levels down to an appropriate level so that it doesnt blast the subject and black out the background. This too is in that mysterious book called a manual.

Another tip...You can also put one of those nifty napkins they have on the table in front of the flash and use it as a diffuser to spread the light around a little so its not so harsh.

Can be done, but given she was at 1/20 and ISO 1600 I don't think shooting a little left would have saved the shot. I could be crazy though.

Maybe not, but Id give that a try before I rushed out to buy a new lens that I might not need.

 

[inTempus]

Tharmsen....THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

You guys are the best....that was like having my big brother's on here!

You're welcome.

I look forward to seeing the shots from your next outing.

 

[ANDS!]

I was going to post the response that BD did. Yes, the 50MM F/1.8 would help at about three stops of light versus the kit lens, but its not the ONLY problem here. There doesn't seem to be a clear understand of how shutterspeed, aperture and ISO work in relation to each other. This is evident when looking at the exif data.

As for the limitations of the camera, it looks like the OP wasn't shooting manual, but a form of "automatic." You can't expect to get the most out of the camera, if you're leaving it up to the camera to determine shooting. I'm not too sure how well Canon's cameras work, but - as BD said - you could have exposed to the right of your shot, and corrected it in post, if you weren't getting a fast enough shutterspeed to stop action. However, looking at the exif were shooting at 1/20th of a second, at 1600 iso, with an EXPOSURE BIAS of +1.7. That last bit right there tells me the OP wasn't in complete control of the camera. Bringing that bias down back to zero would have increased your shutter speed b 1.7 stops (assuming aperture was locked in). Reading the manual and books isn't enough - you have to understand just what all of it means as well.

The biggest problem though is, why are ALL Of these shots blurry. At best, your SUBJECT should be blurry, but the people are blurry, the counter tops are blurry, even the walls are blurry. 1/20th of a second is indeed not that fast. However it isn't THAT slow, and even if the bartenders hand was moving (which is cool) so long as his body is pretty stationary, you should have grabbed some pretty creative shots.

In the end - it wasn't some paid gig, so theres no loss there, and there will always be drunks. Understanding exposure (not just reading about it), will pay off exponentially.

 

[Thru_These_Eyes]

Actually, only one thing contributed to the blurry pictures. The shutter speed. ISO has nothing to do with blurryness, and the f/3.5's depth of field didnt cause it either.



I find it hard to believe that any faster than 1/20 given her f/stop and ISO would have resulted in black photo. There appears to be enough light in that scene for a much higher shutter speed. If that was max, Im glad I dont shoot canon.



I didnt imply any such thing. But if that's how you want to take it...wear it with pride.





This is where reading the manual comes in handy. See there is this little thing called a "pop-up" flash. There is also an adjustment in the camera to drop the EV levels down to an appropriate level so that it doesnt blast the subject and black out the background. This too is in that mysterious book called a manual.

Another tip...You can also put one of those nifty napkins they have on the table in front of the flash and use it as a diffuser to spread the light around a little so its not so harsh.




Maybe not, but Id give that a try before I rushed out to buy a new lens that I might not need.

Okay...you know, you really don't have to be so cruel to everyone on here. There is no reason for you to be rude. And your little napkin tip...excuse me for not knowing all the little shortcuts at that given moment. Did you just pick up a camera one day and know everything? Doubt it.

I would have bought that lens regardless of the turnout of these photos. And AGAIN, I will say that I have read the manual many times and I don't think there is anything wrong with coming to a forum for help with things I don't understand.

If you don't have anything nice to say or critiques to give without being cruel, then don't bother posting anything. The kind of person you seem to be is not the kind of person who obviously belongs on a forum.

 

[Thru_These_Eyes]

I was going to post the response that BD did. Yes, the 50MM F/1.8 would help at about three stops of light versus the kit lens, but its not the ONLY problem here. There doesn't seem to be a clear understand of how shutterspeed, aperture and ISO work in relation to each other. This is evident when looking at the exif data.

As for the limitations of the camera, it looks like the OP wasn't shooting manual, but a form of "automatic." You can't expect to get the most out of the camera, if you're leaving it up to the camera to determine shooting. I'm not too sure how well Canon's cameras work, but - as BD said - you could have exposed to the right of your shot, and corrected it in post, if you weren't getting a fast enough shutterspeed to stop action. However, looking at the exif were shooting at 1/20th of a second, at 1600 iso, with an EXPOSURE BIAS of +1.7. That last bit right there tells me the OP wasn't in complete control of the camera. Bringing that bias down back to zero would have increased your shutter speed b 1.7 stops (assuming aperture was locked in). Reading the manual and books isn't enough - you have to understand just what all of it means as well.

The biggest problem though is, why are ALL Of these shots blurry. At best, your SUBJECT should be blurry, but the people are blurry, the counter tops are blurry, even the walls are blurry. 1/20th of a second is indeed not that fast. However it isn't THAT slow, and even if the bartenders hand was moving (which is cool) so long as his body is pretty stationary, you should have grabbed some pretty creative shots.

In the end - it wasn't some paid gig, so theres no loss there, and there will always be drunks. Understanding exposure (not just reading about it), will pay off exponentially.

That is not how ALL of the pictures turned out. A lot of them turned out fantastic. I was simply putting the pictures up that showed a problem that I wanted to know how to fix. I am so frustrated right now...I just wanted to know what the problem was with those few pictures. Period. They did not all turn out that way. Jeeze.

 

[inTempus]

Actually, only one thing contributed to the blurry pictures. The shutter speed. ISO has nothing to do with blurryness, and the f/3.5's depth of field didnt cause it either.

I didn't say the ISO setting or the f/3.5 DoF caused the blurry images, I clearly stated the obvious - shutter speed. Your reading comprehension sucks almost as bad as your attitude.

I find it hard to believe that any faster than 1/20 given her f/stop and ISO would have resulted in black photo. There appears to be enough light in that scene for a much higher shutter speed. If that was max, Im glad I dont shoot canon.

Oh, it appears to be enough light in the room, eh? Really? You can tell that from the photo? You're not as experienced as you pretend, are you?

Looks like there's a lot of light in my kitchen, doesn't it? Even sunlight coming through the window, right?

That's ISO 1600, 1/20, f/1.2 taken with an 85L at dusk.

Oops.

Also, nice sophomoric touch throwing in a totally unwarranted jab at Canon.

I didnt imply any such thing. But if that's how you want to take it...wear it with pride.

I wasn't the only one, everyone else including the nice lady you insulted took it that way.