Can I just say a BIG THANK YOU

Chris of Arabia · Nov 22, 2008

Can I also add my thanks to Corry and Corinna for their work here at TPF. I have found both to be very supportive and welcoming, and in Corinna's case not only to the forum, but also to her home. I hope they will both continue to take part in forum activities for many many years to come.

Chase · Nov 22, 2008

Helen B said:
What happened to the rest of your post - the part in which you respond to at least some of the concerns expressed in this thread to show that you care, or pretend to care?

Best,
Helen

I know this will probably sound harsh, but if I answered every concern people had and made a change every time someone wanted/suggested/demanded a change to be made, I'd never sleep. :lol:

I think we often lose sight of a few things. First and foremost, this is a web site. This is a place where people come together and chat about a common interest they have, make some friends, share some pictures, and otherwise kill time.

Unfortunately, people sometimes get way too caught up in the "politics" and the inner workings of the site. They want to be involved in the decisions and they want to know every detail of what goes on behind the scenes. If I make a decision people don't like, they threaten to leave, etc. The reality of the situation though is that people, although they believe they understand whats going on and know better than others, really don't know or understand what all goes into the decision making of the site. Most people also don't realize that although they feel a decision has a big impact on them personally, it is made in the interest of hundreds or thousands of members and non-members that visit this site every day.

Back to the moderator topic. Moderators will come and go, they have before and they will again. They were both sent private messages letting them know the change was made. A lot of people have jumped into this because people they care about are no longer moderators, but the bottom line is whether or not they are a moderator really means very little. A moderator is a member, just like anyone else, they have simply been asked to do a bit more to help the site. In Corinna's case, even though her title is no longer "moderator", she has the ability to continue doing the same things she had been doing and has continued to move and modify threads as recent as yesterday.

Anyway, I think I've ranted enough for now, but I'm sure I'll spew more nonsense later on.

Chase · Nov 22, 2008

Chris of Arabia said:
Can I also add my thanks to Corry and Corinna for their work here at TPF. I have found both to be very supportive and welcoming, and in Corinna's case not only to the forum, but also to her home. I hope they will both continue to take part in forum activities for many many years to come.

Chris and Arch,

Thanks for pushing this back to what was (and should still be) the topic at hand. Corry and Corinna have put a ton of themselves into this site, and I hope they've gotten at least a small portion of that back in return through the friendships and hopefully the enjoyment they've found here. I thank them both personally for all they have contributed and I hope they both continue to be a big part of the site.

Helen B · Nov 22, 2008

Could the moderators move the non-thankyou parts of this thread to a separate thread so that the discussion can continue? I'd like to respond to Chase because I think that he continues to miss the point entirely, but this is not the place. The sentence "This is a place where people come together and chat about a common interest they have, make some friends, share some pictures, and otherwise kill time.' is interesting because of what it misses: a sense of the effort that some people make to pass on accurate, valuable information without reward. 'Otherwise killing time' doesn't fit, and it is something of an insult.

Thanks,
Helen

karissa · Nov 22, 2008

Helen B said:
Could the moderators move the non-thankyou parts of this thread to a separate thread so that the discussion can continue? I'd like to respond to Chase because I think that he continues to miss the point entirely, but this is not the place. The sentence "This is a place where people come together and chat about a common interest they have, make some friends, share some pictures, and otherwise kill time.' is interesting because of what it misses: a sense of the effort that some people make to pass on accurate, valuable information without reward. 'Otherwise killing time' doesn't fit, and it is something of an insult.

Thanks,
Helen

Chase addressed the issues at hand to an acceptable level. There is no need for more discussion. If you are insulted by anything that was said, please feel free to find another forum that fits your needs. I believe that the majority of the users here respect what has been said and will continue to enjoy this forum the same as they always have. I'm sure that this forum can still be enjoyed by you as well if you want to.

terri · Nov 22, 2008

Tone it down a notch, Helen.

I think if anyone is "missing a point" here, it is you, Alex-B and his alter-ego Flipsy, and the rest of those who would actually take personal offense over not being informed of a moderator change at a public forum.

Chase started this site in 2003 and ran it from a small server in his own living room. He could not have foreseen its growth, nor did he pursue it as a way to pay his bills. For him, and for the first few hundred folks who joined in the days of the site's infancy, this place was exactly that: "a place where people come together and chat about a common interest they have, make some friends, share some pictures, and otherwise kill time". If the site's founder views the site in this way, and it doesn't correspond with your own, so be it.

Each of us come here with varying levels of expertise, as well as expectations. The site is modeled to be "member-driven", in that members can decide to set up learning tools (Photo Assignments/Technical Challenges, the Mentoring program both come to mind) that have no moderator oversight - and don't require any!

We keep a Feedback forum available for additional input from members as far as what they might like to see happen with the site, as well. If you have suggestions to make to Chase, Helen, I'd ask you to take it there.

A business decision was recently made that led to restructuring of the staff. Not all details of the site's business have been announced yet. However, the fact that a couple of members whose names were usually in green, were no longer in green, was noticed. No doubt some PM's were sent and LP felt obliged to call attention to the fact that Corry and Corinna aren't mods, but put out a platform to anyone who wanted to thank them for all they've done. It's that simple.

Why our Corinna made no mention of the fact she actually is still on staff can only be known to her.

It would be rather nice if the members had some idea what the mode/direction/thinking of Chase is. Is this a serious photo forum or just a social networking community with an interest in photography? Is the high noise to signal ratio of value to anyone who wants to learn about photography or does that matter at all? Is this forum more for kids from 14 to 30 or for everyone? Should cliques be encouraged or discouraged?
Are experienced photographers encouraged or discouraged by the tone and trends in this forum? Does it matter? How do moderators try to control the forums but stay as neutral as possible? But then maybe that is not the expectation. A moderator may be expressing a personal view or forum policy. How does one really know?

skieur

The answer to the boldtype question is: Yes.

I repeat: as we all come to the forum with varying skill levels, there are varying social interest levels, too. One can play games in the OT forum all day long or avoid it like the plague and seek only more serious discussion in the Photographic Discussions forum. It's up to you - and, to put more bluntly what Chase was trying to say nicely - frankly, the TPF staff doesn't care. Enjoy the aspects of the site that appeal to you!

In answer to your italicized question, Skieur - forum policy is available for review under the FAQ's. Please familiarize yourself with it if you have doubts with what a moderator is saying. If you believe a moderator is enforcing some rule that appears outside of what has been outlined, by all means contact the owner.

Look. As much as different people have different views on what the site should be, so goes their views on what moderators should be.

But quite simply (again, as Chase pointed out) - moderators are TPF members who help with enforcing the guidelines that were written by him, and massaged over time. We help with spam and help members find their way around the place, move threads, etc,. - but in a nutshell, we're mainly here to enforce the guidelines.

People's situations change and the needs of the forum change - so periodically, TPF's staffing model will change, too.

That is all that has happened here.

No one has been punished, no one did anything wrong.

Hope this helps. Sorry we were unable to clarify it sooner. A little faith in benign intent would have been appreciated - now and in the future, when changes are likely to happen again.

To Corry and Corinna: I thank you both for all the work you put in, and it was fun when we all met and partied in DC a few years back. I'm happy to have gotten to know you both!

Big Bully · Nov 22, 2008

Corrina, thank you so much for the hard work that you have put into the site. I have appreciated all that you have done for me. Thank you for the photography advice and showing off your beautiful photos. You are definately an inspiration and I have really loved getting to know you. Thank you!
Corry, I haven't talked to you much, but the few times that I have, I have enjoyed it. You have done a great job as a Mod and I know how hard you worked on this site while juggling school. Great job and thank you!!
You two are great and are definately a great contribution to this site. Job well done!

ferny · Nov 23, 2008

One point missed - some people have paid money into the site and now feel that their money isn't being used in the way they expected it to be. IE, they haven't been made aware of what was going to happen.

Also, Corina doesn't or didn't appear to know that she was still wanted to be part of the site. If that is the case it doesn't look courteous and may appear to some as "right, we like your effort but don't want to let the public know you're doing it".

LaFoto · Nov 23, 2008

Ferny, I have known since the colour green disappeared from my name that I'm still "spam cop" here! Chase had told me as much. But to my mind, "spam cop" is not quite the same...

Chase · Nov 23, 2008

ferny said:
One point missed - some people have paid money into the site and now feel that their money isn't being used in the way they expected it to be. IE, they haven't been made aware of what was going to happen.

Also, Corina doesn't or didn't appear to know that she was still wanted to be part of the site. If that is the case it doesn't look courteous and may appear to some as "right, we like your effort but don't want to let the public know you're doing it".

Ferny,

I fail to see how paying money to the site means you suddenly have more say or deserve to have some level of information above and beyond other members. Subscribing and/or donating has a very clear set of benefits, and I don't believe promising additional information or being part of some "inner circle" was a part of that. I'd prefer you not try to create issues by implying you were promised something that you were not.

Corinna has also already corrected your second statement, which was inaccurate. Once again, being a moderator/"spam cop"/whatever other name we want to give these roles is not a popularity contest. If people do it for the recognition (which Corinna I know does not), they would be the wrong person for the job in the first place.

ferny · Nov 23, 2008

Chase said:
Ferny,

I fail to see how paying money to the site means you suddenly have more say or deserve to have some level of information above and beyond other members. Subscribing and/or donating has a very clear set of benefits, and I don't believe promising additional information or being part of some "inner circle" was a part of that. I'd prefer you not try to create issues by implying you were promised something that you were not.

I'm not creating issues at all, thanks. I'm trying to explain why some of the people who make this site what it is (the users) aren't happy.

You've taken money from people in order to support the site and as a way for them to show appreciation for what they've gained from using it. It is unfair for you to be surprised when users do not agree with a change made. Like it or not and you can throw the word "donation" at me all you want, but the subscribers are customers of yours for the period of time you set and if they don't like the service they receive they should be allowed to tell you. You clearly do not understand this and I think that's a clear problem which there is obviously no point discussing.

Corinna has also already corrected your second statement, which was inaccurate. Once again, being a moderator/"spam cop"/whatever other name we want to give these roles is not a popularity contest. If people do it for the recognition (which Corinna I know does not), they would be the wrong person for the job in the first place.

I apologises for not noticing Corina's statement - made after my reply. The only information the users had was this;

LaFoto said:
Thank you all once again for your votes of confidence on Corry's and my work as moderators on these forums.

And Skieur ... little do I know, too, about what is happening "behind closed doors" here. Chase might even no longer be the owner of the whole site, for all I know ... :scratch: I wasn't told anything nor was I given any other explanation but "re-organisation" as the reason for why I had to be de-mod-ed (and I'm sure Corry had that self-same e-mail in her account, too, and no more).

Also, what is the purpose of hiding the people deemed suitable to support the running of the site? Obviously we don't know what is going on and hopefully one day we will so it all makes sense. But as it currently stands you've reduced the number of visible people users can go to for support and assistance.

terri · Nov 23, 2008

Pete: no one is a "customer" here. That implies TPF sells an actual product, which it doesn't. Subscribers get the following for a pre-determined set of time: Personal gallery space, increased space in your PM box, the ability to attach photos directly to posts, access to the unmoderated subscribers-only forum, and the ability to set your own title.

It's all clearly spelled out and at no time is there any indication that subscribers gain any buy-in on staffing decisions. To imply otherwise IS creating an issue where none should exist.

It is unfair for you to be surprised when users do not agree with a change made.

Point taken; conversely, it's unfair of the members here to turn a "thanks to former moderators for the help you gave" type thread into a free-for-all with insults cast towards the site founder and the remaining team.

Cliques of friends are fine, but no one on TPF has any say in business decisions except the site owner - not even the moderating team. We can only offer suggestions and kick ideas around - exactly like any member is welcome to do in our Feedback & Suggestions forum. And of course, if anyone decides TPF is not a good fit for what they like in a photography forum, no one forces them to log in and contribute. Only you can decide if you like what you see - but obviously we can't please everyone all the time.

Obviously we don't know what is going on...

Acknowledged, and it is appreciated that this is very bothersome for a certain set of members. I wil repeat: A little faith in benign intent would have been appreciated - now and in the future, when changes are likely to happen again.

No evil is being done here. It's just a change in the staffing model.

I will respectfully ask the membership to please show some restraint with additional comments, and please remember none of this has anything to do with the fundamental policies and principles of TPF.

Finally: This thread really needs to revert back to its original intent. If you wish to debate policy, take it to the Feedback forum. Thank you.