Can we talk F stops

[Dao]

I see that clanthar gave a graphical image and according to those who know and those who test lenses f8 and f11 seem to be the best f stops for most (?) lenses.

Yes, usually.

But according to some people, you can't tell the difference between f/4 and f/32 anyway, so it doesn't matter what you use.

LOL :lmao:

 

[KmH]

OK all you geniuses with time on your hands (I don't) ...........

Clearly, you believe your feces is not odiferous. ldman:

Obviously, you DO have time on your hands, else you wouldn't be reading threads and posting at all. :greenpbl:

 

[Dao]

I see that clanthar gave a graphical image and according to those who know and those who test lenses f8 and f11 seem to be the best f stops for most (?) lenses.

In general, most of the lens perform the best at few stops from the max aperture.


Note: The following MTF chart imagines are from photozone.de

i.e. Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 peak at f/5.6-f/8

And Nikon AF 180mm lens peak around f/5.6-f/8

The Canon 135mm lens peak at f/4-f/5.6

 

[sobolik]

I see that clanthar gave a graphical image and according to those who know and those who test lenses f8 and f11 seem to be the best f stops for most (?) lenses.

Yes, usually.

But according to some people, you can't tell the difference between f/4 and f/32 anyway, so it doesn't matter what you use.

I deliver several hundred photos to a wedding party and perhaps 3 dozen in attendance who give me their email. I don't remember ever hearing one comment related depth of field. Much less the nuances between F5.6 vs F10 This issue is for those who sit around wondering what the difference is - like photographers. It's kind of like the difference in tread pattern on the discontinued X tire compared to the new version X tire. No one cares except those sitting around pondering it. And then they could not tell the difference between them in actual use. Exactly like the post previous to this one. Pretty much useless information in the real world of taking photos

The difference between F5.6 and F10 with a subject at 10 feet is that the back of the persons head might be starting to get slightly out of focus at F5.6 while at F10 it is less so. Since the face is in focus for both it is doubtful that any will notice that the very back hairs sticking out sideways from a bushy hair doo are not sharp. (105mm lens Nikon D90 sensor calculations)

Since these nuances are not going to be noticed I never bother employing them. I simply open up fully or stop down fully when seeking to employ depth of field effects.

 

[Josh66]

They don't care because they don't have to. They aren't photographers.

Would you expect your dentist to look at a scene and suggest camera settings? I doubt it.

Of course they don't know the difference between f/5.6 and f/11 (and, yeah - I agree, f/5.6 to f/11 is not a very big difference...). Why would you expect them to?

They probably wouldn't even know what you were talking about if you started saying which aperture you were using as you were shooting.


I hate to break it to you, but this is a forum for photographers, not wedding guests. Expect people here to know the difference...


I think your logic is flawed on this... It sounds like you think that since 'they' don't care (or know), you shouldn't either.

 

[sobolik]

OK all you geniuses with time on your hands (I don't) ...........

Clearly, you believe your feces is not odiferous. ldman:

Obviously, you DO have time on your hands, else you wouldn't be reading threads and posting at all. :greenpbl:

Some people claim to be able to tell the difference "genius" So lets let them have a go at putting a series of F stop photos in proper order. If they really can then I guess you can chime in with your "Clearly, you believe your feces is not odiferous"

 

[sobolik]

They don't care because they don't have to. They aren't photographers.

Would you expect your dentist to look at a scene and suggest camera settings? I doubt it.

Of course they don't know the difference between f/5.6 and f/11 (and, yeah - I agree, f/5.6 to f/11 is not a very big difference...). Why would you expect them to?

They probably wouldn't even know what you were talking about if you started saying which aperture you were using as you were shooting.


I hate to break it to you, but this is a forum for photographers, not wedding guests. Expect people here to know the difference...


I think your logic is flawed on this... It sounds like you think that since 'they' don't care (or know), you shouldn't either.

You just like to argue. While others are enjoying photos you are bitching that they should care about blah blah blah.

 

[Josh66]

They don't care because they don't have to. They aren't photographers.

Would you expect your dentist to look at a scene and suggest camera settings? I doubt it.

Of course they don't know the difference between f/5.6 and f/11 (and, yeah - I agree, f/5.6 to f/11 is not a very big difference...). Why would you expect them to?

They probably wouldn't even know what you were talking about if you started saying which aperture you were using as you were shooting.


I hate to break it to you, but this is a forum for photographers, not wedding guests. Expect people here to know the difference...


I think your logic is flawed on this... It sounds like you think that since 'they' don't care (or know), you shouldn't either.

You just like to argue. While others are enjoying photos you are bitching that they should care about blah blah blah.

:lmao:

You're the one that's bitching. I could care less what you do. Really. I'm just trying to stop you from filling the heads of noobs with nonsense.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

You just like to argue. While others are enjoying photos you are bitching that they should care about blah blah blah.

:lmao:

You're the one that's bitching. I could care less what you do. Really. I'm just trying to stop you from filling the heads of noobs with nonsense.

:thumbup::lmao:

 

[Derrel]

The classic phrase, "f/8 and be there".

The classic exposure for Tri-X 400 " Eff five-point-six at one two-fiftieth!"

The classic lament, "Damnit, I should have brought the fifty one-four for this....this light sucks."

The lazy guy's comment, "Yeah, I left the 300 two-eight in the trunk...brought the f/4 instead...I'll just jack the ISO."

The 4x5 product shooter ,"Okay, we need f/64, so that means we'll need five pops of flash, and with the bellows factor added in, we'll need three more pops...."

And so on and so on. Some of these are a bit humorous, or used to be considered so among my friends.

 

[8ball]

:lmao:

You're the one that's bitching. I could care less what you do. Really. I'm just trying to stop you from filling the heads of noobs with nonsense.[/QUOTE]



SO WAIT WHAT ARE YOU SAYING IM A NOOB?!?!?! HAHAHA

Thanks everyone for your input on this

 

[Overread]

OK all you geniuses with time on your hands (I don't) Here is an assignment for you.

Go outside and take one photo per f stop of the same exact scene.

Ok:

One taken at f5.6, one at f8 and one at f13 - now tell me aperture has no effect :greenpbl::greenpbl:
oh and you can see the rest here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24534478@N04/sets/72157623350445656/

done for myself mostly to see the diffraction effect in action as it softens my shots and helped me decide where the "safe" limits with aperture are if I want to preserve sharpness

 

[ann]

well, it was posted in the beginners section.

DOF is determined by fstop, focal length of lens and what one is focusing on.

Cropped sensor are not *IMHO* the best type of camera to use for this so called test.

With my beginning students I find they can't see DOF , they aren't sure what they are looking at or for. This is a matter of experience and practice. It all looks the same until we review an exercise they are given in class and discuss that this means and what it can do. The exercise only involves full stops, as they and most of us can't see the difference in 1/3 , and so what.

It takes time and practice to discover just how much DOF one wants . Rule of thumb in my class, out of focus background , low number, larger aperture. Sharp backgrounds i.e. landscape large number small aperture. Don't know and don't care f8 and be there.

What they do responds to is wonderful out of focus backgrounds, dare I mention boken, but when they find out what the cost is to create that type of look their eye glaze over. Yes, some do find a nify 50 prime and then discover how delicate focusing becomes.

All this comes from experience.

And I do believe that photographers with lots of experience could take a series of images and place them in order of DOF if they are full stops. Can I tell the difference between f16 and 22, probably not, but I would not be using 22 anyway, so it becomes a mote point.

 

[sobolik]

They don't care because they don't have to. They aren't photographers.

Would you expect your dentist to look at a scene and suggest camera settings? I doubt it.

Of course they don't know the difference between f/5.6 and f/11 (and, yeah - I agree, f/5.6 to f/11 is not a very big difference...). Why would you expect them to?

They probably wouldn't even know what you were talking about if you started saying which aperture you were using as you were shooting.


I hate to break it to you, but this is a forum for photographers, not wedding guests. Expect people here to know the difference...


I think your logic is flawed on this... It sounds like you think that since 'they' don't care (or know), you shouldn't either.

You just like to argue. While others are enjoying photos you are bitching that they should care about blah blah blah.

:lmao:

You're the one that's bitching. I could care less what you do. Really. I'm just trying to stop you from filling the heads of noobs with nonsense.

I get such a kick out of the people on forums. They suggest that every "noobs" buy fast glass and then in another post claim that the very same fast lens setting be ignored because everyone knows that the mid apertures are the best to use. Then to top it off the they pretend to really be a great guru by saying " I'm just trying to stop you from filling the heads of noobs with nonsense"

A little less typing and a little more paying attention for many on the forum is good advice to follow.

 

[sobolik]

MPE 65mm test shot series - a set on Flickr[/url]

done for myself mostly to see the diffraction effect in action as it softens my shots and helped me decide where the "safe" limits with aperture are if I want to preserve sharpness

You are the one saying "now tell me aperture has no effect" No one else has made that claim.