Client's Photo Usage?

[tirediron]

...are you willing to turn down clients that only want digital files? if you had clients that only wanted pictures for social media usage, would you refer them to another photographer?
I wouldnt. and didnt. seemed silly to me.

No, no, nor would / do I. What I do is price my digital files at a point where it makes up for the revenue lost in selling prints. I'm not saying "Don't sell digital files!", what I am saying is, "Try and avoid it, but if you do, DO NOT give them away!". It drives me bat-s**t crazy when I see all these facebook/Craig's List/etc "photographers" advertising "2 hour photo session with all your pictures on a CD $50".

those that get completely stuck on antiquated methods and can not adapt to new ways products are consumed are no less doomed to failure than those that refuse to consider the old tried and true methods.

in short, there is no "single solution" to photography sales.
we all just have to figure out what works for ourselves, our area, and our clientele.

Very true, as in all things moderation and compromise are key. At the end of the day it comes down to having an effective business plan and understanding sales.

 

[pixmedic]

...are you willing to turn down clients that only want digital files? if you had clients that only wanted pictures for social media usage, would you refer them to another photographer?
I wouldnt. and didnt. seemed silly to me.

No, no, nor would / do I. What I do is price my digital files at a point where it makes up for the revenue lost in selling prints. I'm not saying "Don't sell digital files!", what I am saying is, "Try and avoid it, but if you do, DO NOT give them away!". It drives me bat-s**t crazy when I see all these facebook/Craig's List/etc "photographers" advertising "2 hour photo session with all your pictures on a CD $50".

those that get completely stuck on antiquated methods and can not adapt to new ways products are consumed are no less doomed to failure than those that refuse to consider the old tried and true methods.

in short, there is no "single solution" to photography sales.
we all just have to figure out what works for ourselves, our area, and our clientele.

Very true, as in all things moderation and compromise are key. At the end of the day it comes down to having an effective business plan and understanding sales.

we did packages. both digital and print.
each package had its own price and # of pictures. (starting at 5)
I think we did something like 3 packages (5, 10, 20) and everything outside of those numbers had to be purchased a la carte. (pay for 5 picture package and order 2 additional if you want 7)
our digital files were priced out quite a bit higher than our prints because we assumed it was a one-time sale.
our "sitting fee" was priced to basically cover what we wanted to make, and prints/digital files were just extra.

 

[DGMPhotography]

Thank you pixmedic - I believe your experience, and viewpoint, span across generations, and that is very helpful for someone like me.

Most of the successful photographers I know in my area mostly deal in digital jpegs. In fact, I asked a successful wedding photographer friend I know what she charges for prints and her answer was, "I don't know, I don't really do them. The client usually prints it themselves." She charges $2500 per wedding and at 15 weddings per year, she's doing pretty well. That's about where I want to be.

 

[pixmedic]

Thank you pixmedic - I believe your experience, and viewpoint, span across generations, and that is very helpful for someone like me.

Most of the successful photographers I know in my area mostly deal in digital jpegs. In fact, I asked a successful wedding photographer friend I know what she charges for prints and her answer was, "I don't know, I don't really do them. The client usually prints it themselves." She charges $2500 per wedding and at 15 weddings per year, she's doing pretty well. That's about where I want to be.

I would not recommend "not doing prints". even in this digital age, there is definitely a place for prints, and not having it as an option will just be that much less you will be able to offer clients.
we used SmugMug pro, and that allowed us to sell prints directly from the website. clients chose the pictures and the amount they wanted, paid right on the website, and the prints were delivered to their door. smugmug pro let us set the prices, and what pro lab we wanted them done at. (we used bayphoto)

while we dealt mostly in digital files, I always liked to talk up prints with every client as well. especially for formal portraits. the kind of pictures people my age remember seeing on their parents and grandparents walls or tables. sometimes the nostalgia alone was worth a few 8x10's. Plus, i could show them the difference between a pro lab print and a costo/walmart print. visual aids often work better than trying to explain color and paper details to a non-photographer.

 

[table1349]

Thank you pixmedic - I believe your experience, and viewpoint, span across generations, and that is very helpful for someone like me.

Most of the successful photographers I know in my area mostly deal in digital jpegs. In fact, I asked a successful wedding photographer friend I know what she charges for prints and her answer was, "I don't know, I don't really do them. The client usually prints it themselves." She charges $2500 per wedding and at 15 weddings per year, she's doing pretty well. That's about where I want to be.

I guess it depends on where you want to be. A friend of mine only does weddings at a base price of $3000. This includes the basic announcement shoot if you want one. He's doing around 70 to 80 weddings a year, thus the reason he only shoots weddings. On average two days shooting a week and a couple of days editing time. Mostly a 4 day work week for him and his daughter making a nice 6 figure income. He sells prints and albums. He will sell digital files but they are costly. 99 % of his customers choose a print package. He has no problem keeping busy with his one and only profession.

 

[Designer]

This thread has given me a new direction in life.

I can see now that I'm going to have to go into business as a professional photographer if for no other reason than to enable me to set my own prices.

Didn't need any more to do, so thanks a lot.

 

[pixmedic]

This thread has given me a new direction in life.

I can see now that I'm going to have to go into business as a professional photographer if for no other reason than to enable me to set my own prices.

Didn't need any more to do, so thanks a lot.

setting your prices is the easy part. getting paid those prices is something else altogether.

 

[ClickAddict]

Also keep in mind various types of photography will lean more towards prints than others. Weddings would almost always warrant albums and print packages in most markets. If you shoot mostly glamour shots and portfolio work for models / actors, they seem to be moving more to needing to display online so I could see them being happy with just digital copies that they can send to agencies / companies across the country a lot easier than prints.

 

[petrochemist]

Any chance someone could answer all my questions? I'm getting bits and pieces here.

And honestly, the idea of not sharing digital jpegs seems kinda crazy to me. Most of the people I work with expect it. It's like the default.

If the clients you have expect digital files then you have to arrange a contract to suit that. Perhaps including 5 web optimized jpegs at SVGA resolution, with rights to use on facebook etc. A small number of decent quality full resolution prints should IMO also be included (perhaps the same images but not necessarily) The digital versions of print quality images would not be given to the client unless they pay (significantly) extra for this. You should also have prices for extra images available.

If you want ALL your questions here answered, I think it can be summarized as 'Whatever YOUR contract with the client states!'

Personally I wouldn't consider social media to be commercial use unless it's for a commercial organization. Kids everywhere use this for keeping up with their friends (not commercial) a band using social media for publicity is probably commercial. You should be able to gauge for yourself on meeting them whether you'd consider them commercial, and the agree the right with them based on your impression.

 

[Light Guru]

She charges $2500 per wedding and at 15 weddings per year, she's doing pretty well. That's about where I want to be.

You want to make 37,500 before taxes (both business and personal), insurance (both medical and business insurance) plus all other businesses expenses. Oh and let's not forget about saving for retirement.

I'm sure you could get by if that was your take home pay but you won't if that's your gross business income.

Besides there are 52 weeks in a year you should be shooting far more then 15 weddings.

I've noticed that several of your posts have been related to usage rights. Just keep this in mind. The more you fret about how your clients are using your images the less time your spending finding work. Why not up your prices a bit and just let them use the images.

 

[KmH]

She charges $2500 per wedding and at 15 weddings per year, she's doing pretty well. That's about where I want to be.

You want to make 37,500 before taxes (both business and personal), insurance (both medical and business insurance) plus all other businesses expenses. Oh and let's not forget about saving for retirement.

I'm sure you could get by if that was your take home pay but you won't if that's your gross business income.

Yep.
For a single guy the income taxes will be a rate of close to 25% for both federal & state income taxes - subtract about $9400.
You would still have to subtract business expenses, state self-employment taxes, state business taxes, business insurance (at the least, $2,000,000 in liability plus an indemnity policy). For photography gear insurance an Inland Marine rider policy usually works.

Don't forget the IRS's rules:
Business or Hobby? Answer Has Implications for Deductions

 

[DGMPhotography]

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback. You've given me a lot to think about the past few days.

I've taken what you said and crafted it into my new copyright clause. I know you're not lawyers, but I'd be glad to hear what you think:

6. Digital Negatives, Prints and Copyrights

The photographs, digital negatives or prints produced by the Photographer are protected by International Copyright Law (all rights reserved) and the Photographer retains the copyright to all photos and images produced. The Client may receive a copy of the digital photographs, watermarked, in a web resolution format (up to 800x800) if it has been agreed upon as part of the Assignment Package. The Client also may choose a number of digital photographs (determined by the photographer), to receive the full resolution of, free of charge, as a courtesy. Additional digital photographs may be chosen at a rate of $75/photo. Alternatively, the Client may purchase prints directly from the photographer at a reduced rate. The Client may reproduce any digital photos they receive, without altering them, in any manner they like for non-commercial/non-retail purposes. However, the Client agrees to obtain written permission from the Photographer (subject to additional charges) prior to the Client (or its assigned agents) publishing the photos commercially, or selling the photographs for profit.

 

[tirediron]

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback. You've given me a lot to think about the past few days.

I've taken what you said and crafted it into my new copyright clause. I know you're not lawyers, but I'd be glad to hear what you think:

6. Digital Files, Prints and Copyrights

The photographs, digital files, or prints produced by the Photographer are protected by International Copyright Law (all rights reserved) and the Photographer retains the copyright to all photos and images produced. The Client may receive a copy of the digital files, watermarked, in a reduced resolution if it has been agreed upon as part of the Assignment Package. The Client also may choose a number of digital files (determined by the photographer) <what is determined by the photographer? Which files, or how many?>, to receive the full resolution of, free of charge, as a courtesy. Additional digital files may be chosen at a rate of $75/file. Alternatively, the Client may purchase prints directly from the photographer at a reduced rate <reduced from what?>. The client is granted the non-exclusive right to reproduce or print these files for personal/non-commercial use but not to alter them in any way. However, the Client agrees to obtain written permission from the Photographer (subject to additional charges) prior to the Client (or its assigned agents) publishing the photos commercially, or selling the photographs for profit.

My take. I would also add a line about using them for your own purposes; yes, you can legally, but many people don't understand that, and having it agreed to in a signed document may save some headaches down the road.

 

[DGMPhotography]

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback. You've given me a lot to think about the past few days.

I've taken what you said and crafted it into my new copyright clause. I know you're not lawyers, but I'd be glad to hear what you think:

6. Digital Files, Prints and Copyrights

The photographs, digital files, or prints produced by the Photographer are protected by International Copyright Law (all rights reserved) and the Photographer retains the copyright to all photos and images produced. The Client may receive a copy of the digital files, watermarked, in a reduced resolution if it has been agreed upon as part of the Assignment Package. The Client also may choose a number of digital files (determined by the photographer) <what is determined by the photographer? Which files, or how many?>, to receive the full resolution of, free of charge, as a courtesy. Additional digital files may be chosen at a rate of $75/file. Alternatively, the Client may purchase prints directly from the photographer at a reduced rate <reduced from what?>. The client is granted the non-exclusive right to reproduce or print these files for personal/non-commercial use but not to alter them in any way. However, the Client agrees to obtain written permission from the Photographer (subject to additional charges) prior to the Client (or its assigned agents) publishing the photos commercially, or selling the photographs for profit.

My take. I would also add a line about using them for your own purposes; yes, you can legally, but many people don't understand that, and having it agreed to in a signed document may save some headaches down the road.

Thanks for the tweaks, John! And as for my own usage, that's actually covered in a different section (my model release):

7. Model Release

The Client hereby grants to the Photographer and its legal representatives and assigns, the irrevocable and unrestricted right to use and publish photographs of the Assignment, its guests, attendees, and officials for editorial, trade, advertising, stock, commercial and any other purpose and in any manner and medium; to alter the same without restriction; and to copyright the same. The Client hereby releases the Photographer and his legal representatives and assigns from all claims and liability relating to said photographs. If the shoot being conducted is boudoir, nude, or otherwise sensitive subject matter, the use of these photos will be discussed and agreed upon mutually before any public usage by either party.

 

[Designer]

I know you're not lawyers, but I'd be glad to hear what you think:

That's a lot of "stuff" in one little paragraph. How much do you suppose a lawyer would charge you to "polish" it? (Well, actually the entire contract.)