Digital file value?

[o hey tyler]

Why wouldn't I give it away? If it's not a business for me how, exactly, am I going to suffer a loss here by giving it away?

I guess some people value their intellectual property more than others.

 

[amolitor]

I guess some people value their intellectual property more than others.

While certainly true, that's not what's in play here. The OP wanted to see a discussion, so let's game out a possibility here.

Suppose the purchaser wants to spend $100 for one of my photos. I have no idea what the actual dollar amount is in the guy's mind, so let's just pick a number, a small one, and see what happens.

Possibility 1: I hold out for $1000. No sale. I've spent time and effort and emotion and gotten nothing, the purchaser has nothing. Since it's not a business for me, I do not get the business benefit of protecting my price here, instead, I get nothing of value whatsoever. It's just time out of my life that's gone.

Possibility 2: I sell for $100. Now I have to bill the guy, I probably want to write a little contract, I worry about declaring this income on my taxes. Probably I am a little upset because $100 doesn't come close to cover my costs in any meaningful way. Benefits to me: $100 cash money, which affects my life not in the slightest, and the satisfaction of knowing someone likes my photograph and is enjoying it or using it in some fashion right now.

Possibility 3: I give it to the guy. All the fussing around with pseudo-business stuff goes away. Benefit to me: The satisfaction of knowing someone likes my photograph and is enjoying it or using it in some fashion right now.

Being unwilling to set a price on my intellectual property is not the same thing as valuing it cheaply.

 

[o hey tyler]

Cool. Glad you see things that way. Let me know how giving away digital files works towards advancing your photography.

 

[amolitor]

Cool. Glad you see things that way. Let me know how giving away digital files works towards advancing your photography.

Plannin' to add anything of substance here, or is it gonna be pretty much just snippily disagreeing with me? Again. Always.

 

[o hey tyler]

Plannin' to add anything of substance here, or is it gonna be pretty much just snippily disagreeing with me? Again. Always.

I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreeing. I am legitimately interested in future experiences you might have with furnishing a digital copy of a photograph free of charge. Is that so odd?

 

[amolitor]

I suspect that you are being disingenuous, but I will certainly try to let you know how it goes if I give away a digital file some day. Mostly, I give away prints because that's what people actually want.

 

[o hey tyler]

I suspect that you are being disingenuous, but I will certainly try to let you know how it goes if I give away a digital file some day. Mostly, I give away prints because that's what people actually want.

I'm 100% serious. Your suspicions are incorrect sir.

 

[amolitor]

Ok, then. I will take what you say at face value. Now I kind of want to give something away just to see what you do when I tell you about it.

Probably enough of a derail for now, though. Feel free to PM me if.. um, there's some sort of clarification or.. something you want?

 

[pixmedic]

Cool. Glad you see things that way. Let me know how giving away digital files works towards advancing your photography.

wait...so....huh?
thus far, giving away camera equipment has not seemed to impede my photography in any way.
in fact, I find it to be the opposite. Donating equipment (we hope) is helping OTHER people advance their photography.
that might not be quite the same as donating files or prints...but if giving someone a photograph you took inspires THEM to turn around and do something good, or to improve their own photography to emulate that picture, then that might be a reward in itself.
sometimes doing something good for someone doesn't have to involve benefiting from in any way other than a feeling of well being from doing a good deed.

 

[manaheim]

Why wouldn't I give it away? If it's not a business for me how, exactly, am I going to suffer a loss here by giving it away?

It's more than a questioning business. It's a question of control of something you created. I suppose you could do a $0 contract, though personally that seems crazy to me.

 

[amolitor]

Why wouldn't I give it away? If it's not a business for me how, exactly, am I going to suffer a loss here by giving it away?

It's more than a questioning business. It's a question of control of something you created. I suppose you could do a $0 contract, though personally that seems crazy to me.

This is interesting, and I'll try to re-rail this thing a bit in my response. This is just me, your attitude differs and the OP's attitude may also differ. I'm just pointing out that there are people in the world who view these things differently.

There's no way I would do a $0 contract. If you're going to make me mess with paper, you're paying me. Implicit in your, and possibly tyler's, responses is that you take for granted the desire to control the destiny of your work. I don't. If I gave someone a digital file, it would be without restrictions. Do what you will. Why would I do this? Because restricting things requires effort on my part which I seek to avoid, and which brings me no benefit that I can understand.

- If your emotional attachment to your work is such that you don't want people to do just anything with it, well, that's fine. I have no problem with that, I understand it. I don't have such an attachment.

- If your controlling and selling your intellectual property is a business, then that too is fine. You need to control it to make money. Great! That's also not me.

I am an amateur. I occasionally make something I like. By giving you a copy of what I have made, I do not in any way I can see enable you to harm me. If you go and make a great deal of money with my image, well, good for you. If you tonemap my image into a horror-show and cover america with billboards, well, we probably won't be friends any more but it hasn't actually hurt me. I make intellectual property for a living, and have for 20-odd years now. It has paid me well. I have spent far more time than I should have thinking about IP and "what it all means" and part of the result is that I simply don't worry about digital copies of my photography. Have at it, go nuts. It hurts me not at all, and it may give you some joy. The world needs more joy.

How the OP feels about *his* work is another kettle of fish, but he's gotten a lot of discussion and why he should charge, and how much. Now he's got a little essay on why he might choose to charge nothing!

 

[manaheim]

This is interesting, and I'll try to re-rail this thing a bit in my response. This is just me, your attitude differs and the OP's attitude may also differ. I'm just pointing out that there are people in the world who view these things differently.

There's no way I would do a $0 contract. If you're going to make me mess with paper, you're paying me. Implicit in your, and possibly tyler's, responses is that you take for granted the desire to control the destiny of your work. I don't. If I gave someone a digital file, it would be without restrictions. Do what you will. Why would I do this? Because restricting things requires effort on my part which I seek to avoid, and which brings me no benefit that I can understand.

- If your emotional attachment to your work is such that you don't want people to do just anything with it, well, that's fine. I have no problem with that, I understand it. I don't have such an attachment.

- If your controlling and selling your intellectual property is a business, then that too is fine. You need to control it to make money. Great! That's also not me.

I am an amateur. I occasionally make something I like. By giving you a copy of what I have made, I do not in any way I can see enable you to harm me. If you go and make a great deal of money with my image, well, good for you. If you tonemap my image into a horror-show and cover america with billboards, well, we probably won't be friends any more but it hasn't actually hurt me. I make intellectual property for a living, and have for 20-odd years now. It has paid me well. I have spent far more time than I should have thinking about IP and "what it all means" and part of the result is that I simply don't worry about digital copies of my photography. Have at it, go nuts. It hurts me not at all, and it may give you some joy. The world needs more joy.

How the OP feels about *his* work is another kettle of fish, but he's gotten a lot of discussion and why he should charge, and how much. Now he's got a little essay on why he might choose to charge nothing!

I'm attached, yes, but I also considered the OP may not be... But there are also pragmatic elements to consider.

What if the holder of the image used it to slander another? Or perhaps used it to make light of them in some way? Maybe they don't care now, but what if they care later on in their life or career? Or any number of other concerns I'm
Not thinking of but are still out there...

I just don't think it's ever wise to have anything you had responsibility for creating being out of your control without some basic protections in place.

 

[amolitor]

Rather than digging in to point by point stuff that's not really relevant to the thread, I will simply remark that:

a) I see your points!

b) One of the sources of my view about intellectual property is that the "control" you retain over IP which is in another's hands is largely illusory anyways. My view is not only a lighter burden on my soul, but a pragmatic one.

 

[Buckster]

I think amolitor should send all of us copies of all his digital files with no restrictions.

Because, umm... why not?

 

[dmunsie]

Mostly, I give away prints because that's what people actually want.

I'm assuming photography is not your main source of income? (Checking your blog...) ah..ok.. you're in the software business like I am. I have also thought about giving away prints (for promotional reasons) but once you go down that route, it's hard to convert the freebie seekers into actual paying customers.