Do we have any pro piano players in the house?

[kathyt]

If you want a beautiful art object, a restored older instrument is about the best you can do. The difficulty is in determining whether it was restored well or not, and that's a bit subtle.

A grand has a somewhat different action than an upright, and it slightly more pleasing to play I find. The sound quality of a small grand is actually worse than that of a really big upright, though, and you pay a fair premium for the less convenient shape. Baby grands are arguably a ripoff, you pay thousands more for a piano that simply doesn't have good tone in the lowest registers, over the largest available uprights. On the other hand, they LOOK terrific, and there is the action to consider. You get the nice action.

Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway all build superb instruments in both grand and upright shapes. You pay a premium for the Steinway name. Ten years ago there were several second-tier manufacturers that were coming along quite well, well. Petrof comes to mind, they seemed to be building excellent pianos 10 years back. If money is no object, Boesendorfer is a good name to keep in mind as well. They have a somewhat different approach to building pianos, which yields a subtly different sound.

Ongoing maintenance is a real thing to consider. You should get the thing tuned at least twice a year, up to perhaps four times a year depending on how much humidity swing you have in your home. I personally have a good Yamaha stage piano (a digital instrument) which has an action which feels pretty close to a grand piano's action. I spent something like $2500 on it, new, and it's served me well. No tuning, it's incredibly tough, and the sound is a close enough simulation of an actual piano for my purposes. It is not a beautiful piece of art, however. Not even close.

Whatever you do, get a good stool. The benches the give away with pianos are universally too short. Get an adjustable stool, and set it quite high.

I'm not a pro, but I've owned and played badly for decades, and taken a lot of lessons!

At this point, I have looked at several hundred pianos. Yes, the stool, SUPER important! That is as important to me as my shoes are on the nursing floor. I am keeping an open mind as far as brand goes. It seems like every showroom I go into I am still drawn to the Steinways for sound and looks though. I have the space for a Grand, so if I can find one for the price I would spend on a Baby Grand then I might head in that direction. I want to stay under $25,000.

 

[jwbryson1]

Not meant to be taken the wrong way, Kat. :hug::

This may be helpful. I played piano for 10 years as a kid but it's been 25 years so...I played on a concert grand that my father purchased directly from Liberace after one of his shows in the late 60's or early 70's. He still has it and it's worth $$$$$.

Buying a Piano: What You Need to Know—The Complete Idiot’s Quick Guide

 

[ceeboy14]

Get the Steinway...get the Steinway Baby Grand...you'll never regret this decision. Ours has been in the family since it left Astoria, NY in 1946. The tonal quality is like the silkiest of all the finest chocolates ever made.

 

[amolitor]

Certainly a plus for the Steinway is that, while you pay a premium for the name, you also GET a premium should you want to sell it later.

 

[kathyt]

Also, go take lessons. You'll learn approximately one million times faster. It almost doesn't matter how the lessons are structured.

I took private lessons when I was in college, but that was quite a bit ago and not that many. Just enough to start reading sheet music on my own. What I like to do now is buy sheet music to some of my favorite songs and then teach myself to play them. I buy the sheet music on my iPad and I can use that or just print it out.

 

[ceeboy14]

The piano player on the cruise ship used an iPad with the music right on it....saved him oodles of time and not having to carry a satchel of music everywhere he went.

Resell value on a Steinway...ours was built in 1946 and I think I once heard it sold for $800 new. I've had mine appraised every five years and the value now stands well over $60,000. I insure it on a separate insurance codicil for $10K above that number because I only have it done every five years and I know it is going to increase in value. Keep in mind, to do this requires you buy a Steinway appraiser, fly him down from NY, hotel, meals, and return flight.

On a more humorous note, everytime a hurricane looks like it might get remotely close to my neck of the woods, the insurer requires the piano be moved to a place 100 miles to the north which is essentially a bunker for expensive stuff. I've had to move it three times at a cost of about $600 per. Stilllllllllllll, it's as beautiful as a Stradivarius in terms of a great instrument.

 

[jake337]

I know nothing of pianos but I love your budget!

 

[kathyt]

The piano player on the cruise ship used an iPad with the music right on it....saved him oodles of time and not having to carry a satchel of music everywhere he went.

Resell value on a Steinway...ours was built in 1946 and I think I once heard it sold for $800 new. I've had mine appraised every five years and the value now stands well over $60,000. I insure it on a separate insurance codicil for $10K above that number because I only have it done every five years and I know it is going to increase in value. Keep in mind, to do this requires you buy a Steinway appraiser, fly him down from NY, hotel, meals, and return flight.

On a more humorous note, everytime a hurricane looks like it might get remotely close to my neck of the woods, the insurer requires the piano be moved to a place 100 miles to the north which is essentially a bunker for expensive stuff. I've had to move it three times at a cost of about $600 per. Stilllllllllllll, it's as beautiful as a Stradivarius in terms of a great instrument.

From all of the dealers I have talked to thus far, they say as far as investment is concerned...Steinway is the way to go. I am going to be passing this down to my son so I want the value to remain high. I am going to bid on a Steinway Grand in an estate sale this afternoon. It is about $12,000 more than I want to spend for myself, but I might purchase it then sell it to buy my own. I wish they would let me take photos in this home. I almost passed out! Beautiful. Very stereotypical of where a Grand piano should live. I might call the grandson again try and sweet talk him if I win the bid. I will bribe him with food just to take pictures before its moved.

 

[kathyt]

I know nothing of pianos but I love your budget!

I work hard, invest hard, and spend hard. I am also using this as an investment. Just wanted to throw that out there. I would never spend this kind of money on something that would not retain it's value.

 

[amolitor]

You should probably not think of a musical instrument as an investment. At best it will, with a suitable amount of money expended per annum on maintenance, avoid losing value against inflation. You might luck out and hit the right instrument at the right time, but in general it's not a money making endeavor.

This DOES NOT mean that you should not consider how well it will hold value. A $10,000 piano that's worth $0 in 20 years is a worse buy than a $20,000 piano that's worth $19,000 or $21,000 in 20 years. Neither is much of an investment, and neither one should be considered as such.

This does serve as a useful red flag, though. If the sales guy starts talking investment value, ask him if he's willing to commit to that. Will you buy it back from me for 30% more five years from now? Will you guarantee an increase in value? No? Oh, ok, so, you're just a slickster trying to sell me a piano. Goodbye!

ETA: Piano sales people are a notorious bunch of crooks, for reference. They're basically mattress salespeople who can play a tune or two. Search around a bit and look for specific techniques they use, it'll be entertaining, at least.

 

[texkam]

+1 ^ Maintenence, insurance. Lose the investment reasoning. Buy for the other reasons.

 

[ColRay]

This may help.

 

[kathyt]

UPDATE: I scored (bigtime) today at an estate sale on a Steinway Grand Piano (Steinway Model B Semi-Concert Grand Piano 7'). These retail for around $80,000-85,000 new! We went back and forth three times, but I am VERY happy with the outcome. I mean VERY happy. So, I am selling this piano and putting the profit toward the one that I have settled on, which is a 2005 Steinway Baby Grand that I just LOVE! I have 2 dealers coming to see it in the morning and another one in the afternoon. One has made an offer conditional upon inspection and will even pick it up by Friday. I will see if the other offers are higher and include pickup. They will not know what I paid for it either, which is great! They did ask me. Today was a good day.
Texcam and Amolitor, I should have stress "retained" its value instead of using the word investment. I am sure this piano will have alot of value, maybe just not in terms of financial. Thanks for everyones help and input. Oh and gentlemen.... never underestimate the power of a female negotiator.

 

[amolitor]

Wow, gutsy move! I hope it works out well for you!

The Steinway B is more or less the gold standard for privately owned pianos. A D simply takes up too much space and costs too much money. However, any piano, whatever the make and model, is worth somewhere between negative 1000 dollars (disposing of a worthless piano is surprisingly expensive) and some upper bound, in this case well in to five figures. Telling the difference between the two ends of the spectrum is surprisingly technical. A B in visually great condition that sounds pretty good could still be due for a complete rebuild, making it worth something like $5000 to $10,000. There's a very small but non-zero chance it's one of the -$1000 instruments (basically this would require that it had been horribly damaged and shoddily repaired enough to make it play, which is a pretty unlikely scenario. People generally do NOT drop their B's off a truck, and if they do they will generally scrap it rather than "fix" it).

In short, buying and selling pianos as a business is something best done with a fair lot of technical knowledge.

Most likely, you're going to be fine, though!

 

[kathyt]

Wow, gutsy move! I hope it works out well for you!

The Steinway B is more or less the gold standard for privately owned pianos. A D simply takes up too much space and costs too much money. However, any piano, whatever the make and model, is worth somewhere between negative 1000 dollars (disposing of a worthless piano is surprisingly expensive) and some upper bound, in this case well in to five figures. Telling the difference between the two ends of the spectrum is surprisingly technical. A B in visually great condition that sounds pretty good could still be due for a complete rebuild, making it worth something like $5000 to $10,000. There's a very small but non-zero chance it's one of the -$1000 instruments (basically this would require that it had been horribly damaged and shoddily repaired enough to make it play, which is a pretty unlikely scenario. People generally do NOT drop their B's off a truck, and if they do they will generally scrap it rather than "fix" it).

In short, buying and selling pianos as a business is something best done with a fair lot of technical knowledge.

Most likely, you're going to be fine, though!

I sold it this morning. It came with a clean bill of health (certified) and a 3 year warranty. My profit was $3,201.02 and I didn't have to touch it. I would not do this again, but it served my purpose.