DSLR viewfinders... confused!!

[NellsPhoto]

Hello all

I have been using the Canon “super zoom” point-and-shoots for a long time now. My current one is the SX40. I am used to looking through the viewfinder, which is really a little screen, and seeing (pretty much) what my photo will look like. I usually don't use the large LCD screen.

I have messed around with my boyfriend’s Olympus DSLR a little, and I have a question:

Without a little screen for the viewfinder, how do you know how your photo will come out? The shots I took with the Olympus looked great in the viewfinder, but the actual photos looked nothing like what I expected, apparently because I was looking through the lens, and not a screen with the “processed” image. If this is how all DSLRs are, how in the world do photographers get good photos??

I am confused!! HEEEEEELP!!

 

[KmH]

DSLR's have a LCD screen on the back of the camera. After the shutter is released the photographer can look at the photo and usually a histogram of the photo too.

Most DSLRs will let you zoom into the photo to get a closer look too.

However, the rear LCD on DSLR cameras is used under a variety of ambine tlight making them useless for evaluating anything other than focus sharpness, framing, composition, no one had their eyes closed, etc.

 

[480sparky43 43]

Histograms are probably one of the most misunderstood tools available to newbie photographers, hence making them one of the most unused tools as well.

Experienced photographers look at the image itself in the monitor to check for focus and composition. Exposure is based on interpreting the histogram, not the image.

 

[Derrel]

Digital photography with a d-slr is part science, and part magic... yeah...I shoot older-tech d-slr camera that do not do the "exposure simulation" thing that, say, the Canon EOS 60D can do...I have to SHOOT a frame, and then review it on the camera's LCD screen. When I shot Kodachrome 64 back in the eighties, I had to wait as long as two WEEKS to get the slides back!!!!

 

[fjrabon]

You use the spot meter in the viewfinder, aim at a point, look at the dynamic range in the scene and you basically know what it will turn out like. You know what the distance + aperture combo will make the depth of field like, you know basically what the ISO and aperture combo will make the color saturation look like. Heck, you will even start to think about what you could do with a photo in post processing before you even shoot it sometimes. ie thinking, for example "the lighting is a bit flat, but I could mostly fix it to make it a bit more dramatic with a curve adjustment in post"

So basically the answer is lots of experience. Which requires screwing up a lot of shots and then trying to figure out exactly why they were screwed up. It's a combination of shooting a lot and then thinking about shooting a lot. neither one by itself works all that well.

 

[480sparky43 43]

....... When I shot Kodachrome 64 back in the eighties,.........

What a noob! Real photographers used K25. :mrgreen:

 

[NellsPhoto]

Geesh, it sounds like the only way for a new user not to get ruined shots on a DSLR is to use the LCD screen... which makes you look like a $100 camera user when shooting. It must have been awful expensive back in the film days!

This makes me ask another question, do any DSLRs actually have an electronic viewfinder, or is that totally against the whole concept of "SLR"?

 

[480sparky43 43]

..........This makes me ask another question, do any DSLRs actually have an electronic viewfinder, or is that totally against the whole concept of "SLR"?

EVIL cameras.

 

[fjrabon]

well, you can just shoot in A or S modes (Av or Tv on canon) until you start to understand manual better. In certain situations I'll still use manual.

When you say the 'picture doesn't come out right' what exactly are you talking about? What about it isn't right?

 

[NellsPhoto]

Ah yes, I have seen those for sale. So those use slr-style lenses with point and shoot style body, I take it. Sorta like a hybrid...
I should explain that I worry about seeing what my photo will look like quickly because I tend to shoot moving objects, the largest and sometimes fastest of which are trains. You wait a long time for it to come, then take the photos. It isn't the same as using a tripod and still object. The sun suddenly goes away, the glare from the headlights changes as it moves, you have to quickly change your zoom as the train approaches, etc. It seems like a real crap-shoot looking through the lens and praying your settings are correct.

Forgive all my assumptions... but I like to ask all sorts of questions!

 

[NellsPhoto]

When you say the 'picture doesn't come out right' what exactly are you talking about? What about it isn't right?

focus, brightness, color balance for the most part. When I tried the Olympus, I thought I got a great shot of a certain locomotive. Turned out to be green, and partly out of focus. The next time I tried the camera, I snapped some flowers in my garden. Some were too dark, some blurry, some out of focus. But they looked fine through the viewfinder, thus causing my confusion and befuddlement...

 

[fjrabon]

Ah yes, I have seen those for sale. So those use slr-style lenses with point and shoot style body, I take it. Sorta like a hybrid...
I should explain that I worry about seeing what my photo will look like quickly because I tend to shoot moving objects, the largest and sometimes fastest of which are trains. You wait a long time for it to come, then take the photos. It isn't the same as using a tripod and still object. The sun suddenly goes away, the glare from the headlights changes as it moves, you have to quickly change your zoom as the train approaches, etc. It seems like a real crap-shoot looking through the lens and praying your settings are correct.

Forgive all my assumptions... but I like to ask all sorts of questions!

well, all those things would have the same issues through an electronic viewfinder. It sounds like this is more of an issue of you shooting on pure automatic on your point and shoot. If you're shooting a train, even if you see that its too dark in the viewfinder, are you going to have time to change your settings and then look in the electronic viewfinder and mess with it until it looks correct?

 

[Graystar]

I don't have image review enabled on my camera. What do I care what the in-camera JPEG looks like? The image has to be processed, and the final image will likely look very different from the image in the EVF or LCD on the rear of the camera.

But to answer your question...the way it's done is the same way it was done with film...using exposure knowledge. It faster and easier to get the exposure you want using exposure knowledge than via the LCD or even histogram. Here are some examples of exposure knowledge at work...

It's an overcast day and I want to capture a landscape with the cloud cover. The cloud cover is the brightest part of the image, so I meter the clouds and overexpose by 2.7 EV. That makes the clouds as bright as possible without clipping the RAW data. On my LCD, the clouds look blown out, and the ground appears too dark. That's fine. The exposure is as good as it will get, and I'll correct the brightness of the various areas of the image in post processing.

I'm at a car show in a large convention center, with lots of lighting from very high ceilings. I pull out my gray card, set a custom white balance, and then use the card to set and lock my exposure (since exposure is based on the lighting.) Now, I can take pictures and my exposure will be correct.

I'm outdoors and the sky is filled with small white puffy clouds. The clouds are rolling by the sun, causing it to peek in and out from the clouds. When the sun is out, it appears to be a bright day. When the sun is covered by a cloud, it gets darker as the light drops by at least 3 EV. This is happening continuously. To get consistent exposure on a subject, I pick one spot on the subject to act as a reference point for exposure. I then apply a correction for that tone based on knowledge and experience. For example, light skin needs +1 EV compensation. White cats need +2 EV. I've read that a buffalo mane needs -1.5 EV, so if I was in Yellowstone photographing buffalo, I'd use that. As I shoot my subject and adjust my composition and framing, I will move the focus point in the viewfinder and keep it on the reference point that I had picked (the buffalo's mane, or the cat's coat, or the light-skinned person's cheek.) I use a Nikon, and with Nikon the spot metering function follows the selected focus point. In this way, every shot will be metered from the same reference point, and so exposure will be correct and consistent...even if the light is changing as I press the shutter (with Nikon, the exposure isn't locked until the last instant.)

Using histograms and LCDs is what I refer to as setting exposure via trial & error. It's knowledge and understanding that separates an enthusiast photographer from some Joe at the zoo holding a D800 (and wondering what "this button" does.) It's the same with any endeavor that's worth pursuing. You must learn the craft if you really want to get satisfaction out of it. When you look at a scene, make decisions, and get exactly what you were after...that's the joy of the process.

 

[NellsPhoto]

I usually shoot in the "P" mode. I have certain settings set the way I like, and the only things I usually have to change are brightness and metering, which is easy on the SX40. So in a way, it is in partly automatic mode, but full auto is rather useless, and I don't use it all that often. Anyhoo, I can make certain adjustments without even moving my eye from the viewfinder. Sounds like with a DSLR, I'd have to switch to LCD view, look, make adjustments, switch back to viewfinder, set up shot, and take shot.

I realize I am not a pro, but I've been shooting trains since 2003 and have had some photos published, so I must be doing SOMETHING right! But taking the plunge into the world of DSLR would have to really be worth the money, which I don't have at the moment. I am in research mode...

 

[NellsPhoto]

GRAYSTAR - ah... I really wish I could learn all that stuff... (sigh)... With all the local camera shops closed, and no one I know seemingly willing to teach me, I have to come here and ask questions... lots and lots of questions...