Elinchrom D-Lite 2's or 4's

[Mike_E]

Metz have been around for decades and are a well respected in the market, but they are not exactly priced like the Vivitar 285's... lol

I have a Metz 45 and it does come in handy now and then. I find that model a little large, though.

Maybe, but they have the best quality light I've ever seen. Your photos are instant classics (assuming proper exposure and ratios of course ).

 

[JerryPH]

Your photos are instant classics (assuming proper exposure and ratios of course ).

Ah, thats why my pics suck... not using the Metz enough... kinda like saying "More Cowbell!"

 

[Montana]

If you want studio lights, go that route. Speedlights and studio strobes are two totally different beasts. Each has its place however. Speedlights are great for their portability and weight. studio strobes/monolights offer increased control, better accuracy, more power, and a whole range of available modifiers.

Derrick

 

[JerryPH]

studio strobes/monolights offer increased control

I disagree. My SB-800 goes from 1/1 to 1/128th. Control is not an issue. If more control is desired, increase or decrease space between subject and light source. Not important, IMHO.

better accuracy

Huh? How so? It cannot be WB control... becuase speedlights are dead-on consistent. I can also mix and match other speedlights from other manufacturers without issues.

A single setting remains rock steady until you really start to drain the batteries, but that for me happens wa above 400 pictres. I run out of card space before I run out of battery space.

more power

Yes.
But if the question is a 200 W/s head vs a $90 Vivitar, you may be surprisd. A Vivitar or a SB-800 are in the 130-150 W/s range at full power. An SB-600 at around 110 W/s range is *less* than 1 stop of brightness away from matching the power of the DLite-2 strobe and that one stop is not a lot... and I can EASILY match the exposure by raising ISO from 100 to 200! The Vivitar and SB-800s placed side by side with a DLite-2 will show near no exposure differences when both are placed at maximum power.

However... do you REALLY need maximum power? Well, as mentioned, if you are in a small area like a basement studio, that studio head with mandatory umbrella or softbox will take up more room and not offer any appreciable increase in light quality or amount. A small strobe on a stand has a considerably smalller footprint in comparison.

and a whole range of available modifiers.

Literally... there is no modifier that exists for a studio head that does not exist for a flash head... and if by chance it doesn't exist, one can be made "DIY" for next to nothing. My snoot is a ceral box cut to size and covered with gaffer's tape. My grid spot is a smaller version but filled with black straws. My softbxoes are 28 and 50 inch apollos, my umbrellas are anything from 32 to 60 inch silver or white shoot-through or bounce umbrellas.

I would not say that these are accurate points, except for the power... which as mentioned in a small area, a 400W/s DLite4 set to minimum is about 75 W/s and would be close to the performance of a speedlight near maximum and require rediculously small apertures in the confines of a basement. You are looking at the biggest apertures possible would be in the F/8 or smaller range. This makes things like bluring the background impossible and if that effect is important to your style (sincerely, it is for me), that limits me more than expands my choices.

So why not go for the 200 W/s lights at that point, wouldn't they work? Yes, and nicely... but the $$ investment for identical performance from a speed light makes them a waste of money, lots of money. Plus you lose portability too. They are not a good value no matter how you look at it... if you look at it from all angles.

I love the big power, I want to purchase some serious power and soon... but I also know that in an area smaller than a 20 X 20, that big light is going to be a hinderance more than a help to your creativity. One cannot get it low enough... unless you make three or four 5 X 7 foot diffusion screens and place them one in front of another... but again, that takes even MORE room in an already tight environment!

I suggest that the OP rent a single 200 W/s head and a 400 W/s head and see for themselves. Test things out and make your decision based on REAL LIFE experience. This is the best suggestion I can offer. I've shoot with the Profotos, I've shot with the constant hot lightsource and I have shot with the Vivitars and SB's... I know what they do and what works for me. Nothing beats even a few hours of experience in making an educated decision. A brick and mortar dealer will even likely let you test both lights out yourelf for a time and find out right then and there (if you do not want to rent 2 lights for a day).

 

[rufus5150]

If you are making a studio in your basement and the room is 20 X 20 or smaller, studio strobes are overkill... even the 200 W/s ones. This is the world of speedlights.

I have actually used a speedlight/strobist setup for the last two shoots I've done because it's been convenient (outdoors, away from an outlet) and I agree they can rock in some situations and are more than adequate for small rooms.

But don't discount modeling lights! I loves me some modeling lights, and speedlights, they don't have them. If I had my choice, I'd have my genesis 200's over my speedlights any day, simply because of the modeling lights.

Side note on shooting above f8 -- I have genesis 200's (200w/s) and with a shoot-through umbrella, I can still shoot single subjects at f/13-f/16 with no problem. Should be able to shoot single subjects at f/11 with a softbox unless the softbox is ripping way more light than I think.

 

[Mike_E]

Then there's the little thing of recycling.

1 or 2 seconds for the strobes to 5 or 6 seconds for most flashes.

If you are shooting kids or animals flashes are maddening. (which is why the big Metzs are worth the money, and the trouble of an external battery pack)

 

[JerryPH]

...don't discount modeling lights!

I agree it is convenient, but if one is "brought up" to not rely on them, something interesting happens... one learns to know or see where the light will fall light before you take your first test shot. I never used them much early on and have the ability to set up my lights and be 90% accurate right out of the box. I then make a minor adjustment or 2 after making a test shot. Besides, even with studio strobes, you have to take test shots to verify exposure anyway, why not verify light setup as well at the same time? That is perhaps not everyone's way, it is just another way to skin a cat.

Convenient? Definitely! Mandatory? I will say no, becuase I feel that this really depends on style, experience and needs of the photorapher. Perhaps to say it is more helpful to the beginner and less so for the more experienced, may be a nice way to put it. It *is* nice to see the effects of a light positional change immediately, though, but there is nothing stopping me from popping off a test shot and seeing the results in my viewfinder.

Side note on shooting above f8 -- I have genesis 200's (200w/s) and with a shoot-through umbrella, I can still shoot single subjects at f/13-f/16 with no problem. Should be able to shoot single subjects at f/11 with a softbox unless the softbox is ripping way more light than I think.

If you were not getting apertures that small, I would be concerned with a nice 200 W/s setup. I can get F/5.6 at 1/2 power from a 50" Apollo at 8 feet. Half that distance and double the aperture needed (F/8). Bring power up from 1/2 to 1/1 and there is your F/16. All at your base ISO, which also is there to give you some extra leeway if needed. One could also "cheat" and add a 2nd speedlight to give double the light for an extra stop without changing anything.

Also, diffusion layers counts for a lot. If you have a softbox with 3 layers of diffusion material vs 1, that is a nice way to cut things down too. The higher quality softboxes will have the ability to have 2-3 layers and that can cut down light as well as add diffusion. My Apollo softboxes have 1 layer as they are made for weaker speedlights, but it is still a wonderfully diffused and good quality of light.

 

[JerryPH]

Then there's the little thing of recycling. 1 or 2 seconds for the strobes to 5 or 6 seconds for most flashes.

Yes, this is pretty true (a little long on the battery recharge timess I get 3 second times from a 1/1 blast from my SB600-800s, the Metz and the Vivitar 285l ).
However, there are (again) several ways around this.

At 1/2 power or lower, without an external battery pack, I am in the 1-2 second mark between recycle times. Below 1/2 power, have no concerns about popping them off 2 per second all day.

Battery power is a concern, but if you are using decent rechargeables (ie: 2650mah or higher... one can get 2900mah batteries today), you will need to take a break before you need to change batteries.

At 1/2 power, I go 1-1.5 seconds in between recycles on my SB-600. I can easily add a 2nd SB-600 and get the equivalet light of a single SB-600 at full power. If I do something simple like go from ISO 100 to ISO 200 and lower both of the SB-600s to 1/4 power, my exposure remains the same and recycle times are as fast as you will ever need and at 1/4 power, with 2650mah batteries, I get an easy 500+ shots per battery charge. At a strobist event, I have yet to use a 2nd set of batteries and I lend my triggers to others, so that 500 shot per charge really is conservative.

With an external battery pack one could shoot at full power and still get 1 second recharge times. However, speedlights are NOT made for this and you can potentially overheat and burn them out. But at 1/2 power or lower, that speedlight will consistently work at 11 FPS (there is a youtube video showing this), so speed is not an issue anymore. Again, though, I would not want to continually shoot at 11 FPS. 1 shot per second is pretty safe and still often too fast in a real life situation, as most portrait shoots are slower than that simply because it takes time for the model to change position, photographer to change position, aim and focus the camera, from shot to shot.

Model and photographer style are a big factor. I had a model that could go from pose to pose faster than I could keep up, I had to tell her to slow down... (heck if you pull an austin powers... you blow your wad at 11 FPS... and are then spent in 30 seconds! )

 

[Mike_E]

LOL I'm not knocking the strobist method, heck I use it, I'm just saying that for applications where there is power and you don't have to pack your gear in a strobe is hard to beat. Especially if there is a modeling light involved. And that goes quadruple if someone is just starting out with lights.

$.02

 

[JerryPH]

Oh I knew you weren't, I wasn't knocking either methods of lighting.
I was just discussing where I agreed with you and where I thought beginners should know certain things that they may not think or know about, so that they could make a more informed choice, either way they wanted.

 

[NorthernRMK]

Thanks a lot guys, instead of narrowing my choices, you've increased them, LOL. Actually, since I already have a 430EX, the speedlight may be a good route, though a 580EX II (needed as a master for the 430EX), PC cord, and some light modifiers may not necessarily cheaper. The 580 alone is $600 (CAN of course). Do they make modifiers for flashes, or do you just adapt those for strobes to the flash?

 

[45mphK9]

NorthernRMK -- we're in the same boat, I think. I have been reading through this thread looking for "the answer" and now I'm more undecided then ever!

Here is my situation . . . I have a Canon 50D with the Canon 580II speedlite. Most of my shoots have been outdoors, so studio lighting hasn't been too important. Well, I did a lot of sitting around this winter waiting for some decent weather & decided to take over my kids' playroom to make a studio, which happens to be about the referenced 20'x20' room. My clients are mainly toddlers & kids, so I need to be able to shoot quickly.

I have a budget of $500 to $600 to spend on lighting & lighting accessories. Admittedly, I have much to learn about indoor lighting . . . any advice is appreciated.

BTW . . . I purchased my 580EXii on Amazon. It was around $425. Check on Fridays because high priced items are sometimes put on sale.

 

[Gumbylives]

I just would like to say that yes a speedlite has it's advantages for portability. However if you want more creative control over lighting than a monolight is good. It all depends on what you want to achieve. Such as you can buy the most expensive equipment and still not be able to take good photographs if you don't know how to manipulate light. I have looked at strobes vs continuous lighting for several weeks and decided on strobes. Then I narrowed it down to the Elinchrom DLite 4's. Sure you can go for less output with the 2's but at the price point of the 4's, they allow you the opportunity to upgrade should you choose to. I would definitly not choose the cheaper light kits, as you get what you pay for. If you already have speedlites then grab some stands and cheap umbrellas and start there. That way you can and will use the umbrellas later.
It's kind of like choosing a lens...prime or not.
good luck

 

[Buckster]

I just would like to say that yes a speedlite has it's advantages for portability. However if you want more creative control over lighting than a monolight is good. It all depends on what you want to achieve. Such as you can buy the most expensive equipment and still not be able to take good photographs if you don't know how to manipulate light. I have looked at strobes vs continuous lighting for several weeks and decided on strobes. Then I narrowed it down to the Elinchrom DLite 4's. Sure you can go for less output with the 2's but at the price point of the 4's, they allow you the opportunity to upgrade should you choose to. I would definitly not choose the cheaper light kits, as you get what you pay for. If you already have speedlites then grab some stands and cheap umbrellas and start there. That way you can and will use the umbrellas later.
It's kind of like choosing a lens...prime or not.
good luck

You do realize this thread lived and died more than 2 and a half years ago, right?