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Erotic nude shoot: client wants unprocessed images to edit himself

I agree with The_Traveler (post #4 and post #9) and also recommend that an added PITA fee would likely be in order.

All the images I make include a discount based on the assumption the client will be granting me a release (it's part of the contract) to use any images I make to promote my business, which is mentioned in the terms and conditions portion of my contract.

I am quite happy to accommodate a client that does not wish to grant a release, but in doing so the client loses that standard discount, and may in fact incur an additional charge for the added paperwork.

That's pretty rude.
How can it be rude? If the client doesn't like the terms of the deal, they can choose to go to another photographer.

As mentioned by others, the chances are high they will encounter pretty much the same contract language with most other photographers.

Those that sign my model release do get paid for me to use their image, in the form of the discount they get.

What country are you in?
 
The customer is always right. It's good business to be that way.
 
cosmonaut said:
The customer is always right. It's good business to be that way.

That's a silly idealistic ideology that worked better in a time when customers were a little less inclined to make ridiculous business-ending requests.

What happens if your customer demands that you give them the camera the images were taken with, or requires you to travel 500 miles, or requires you to have a second shooter ... even though nothing like that was in the contract? Is the customer always right then?

Stop wasting everyone's time with glib meaningless remarks.
 
I've only ever turned over my CF card once, and that came at a steep price that the client was willing to pay.

I would price this shoot far above a normal shoot, and I would explain why. If he has the RAW, unedited images, and asks you to destroy any and all copies, then that has to come at a price. I would do it, but it wouldn't be cheap...
 
I fail to see the quandry the OP appears to think that he's in? Unless he's going to specialize in "nude males doing erotic things", I fail to see how these photographs could even be used (or would be used) in a portfolio.

Clearly the client wishes for the pictures, and wants to keep them private. If the price is good, I don't see the harm in handing them all over. This isn't a run of the mill request, for run of the mill pictures.

If anything the OP will still get the 'experience' of taking the shots, but just won't have the final product. That doesn't detract from the real world experience of taking the shots.

Just settle on a good price, take the shots, turn over the files (even better have the client provide the memory card) and go home with some cash in your pocket.

I fail to see how that would result in the OP causing long term harm to his business model. In fact, he might get more business if he is seen as 'discreet'. Just my $.02
 
I fail to see the quandry the OP appears to think that he's in? Unless he's going to specialize in "nude males doing erotic things", I fail to see how these photographs could even be used (or would be used) in a portfolio.

Clearly the client wishes for the pictures, and wants to keep them private. If the price is good, I don't see the harm in handing them all over. This isn't a run of the mill request, for run of the mill pictures.

If anything the OP will still get the 'experience' of taking the shots, but just won't have the final product. That doesn't detract from the real world experience of taking the shots.

Just settle on a good price, take the shots, turn over the files (even better have the client provide the memory card) and go home with some cash in your pocket.

I fail to see how that would result in the OP causing long term harm to his business model. In fact, he might get more business if he is seen as 'discreet'. Just my $.02

Apparently, I'm not the only person not interesting in being a promotional model:

Client asking for the Copyright to my pictures - Photo.net Forums
 
OP - welcome to the forum. Hopefully the hijacking of your thread hasn't scared you away.

It seems to me that the relevant point to the OP's issue isn't that the customer retains the only copies of the images (the OP is only assuming, after all, that the customer will demand the OP destroy all other copies after handing them over), it's that the customer is asking to receive unedited images . Unedited images are not representative of the quality of a photographer's work and are generally not something that a photographer wants out in public with his/her name attached...at the very least, because they'll appear soft. I can certainly foresee situations in this kind of a shoot in which the photographer knows that editing will be needed (changing aperture on the fly for artistic DoF reasons, creating an improperly exposed image; changing shooting position which puts something in the background to be cloned out).

My first recommendation is to keep the lines of communication with the customer open - for example, clear up the assumption about deleting your copies (that's the only area in which the erotic nature of the shoot is relevant, IMO). As for handing over unedited photos, which it sounds like you've done before, treat this just like any other work for hire situation you've been in. Decide how much it's worth to you, and if you're worried about the quality of images should they get out to the public make sure there is language in the contract protecting you in that way.
 
cosmonaut said:
The customer is always right. It's good business to be that way.

You are correct. However, there's an important difference between a customer and a CLIENT. A client is under contract, and the (well written) signed contract is always right.
 
I'm not clear whether the customer what's the RAW images to do his own editing or simply to eliminate their improper distribution.

If the former, then I'd have to ask if he has appropriate software and skills and printing equipment to produce results as good as yours. If the latter, I can fully understand his position. He may be an executive of some well-known company and pictures like these could not only ruin his career, but also the public image of that company.

I'm going to assume he wants the 'full package', including prints, and maybe finished JPGs, but really wants to ensure that the images never get seen by anyone other than himself and his lady friend. I really don't have a problem with that. If you really would like to use a single image for potential advertising, let him choose it, and make sure it's a waist-up shot only...or in a swimsuit. But he may still not want anything of the kind floating around in cyberspace.

As noted earlier, what's there to ensure to him (the customer) that the pictures will never get (wrongfully) distributed, whether by intent or accident? I think he has the right to guarantee that they NEVER go anywhere but home with him. Even sample printouts the size of a contact print. Think of it like government classified material on a computer. All other hard drives must be locked out while processing classified data, and even impact printer ribbons must be securely stored after printing classified data. In the case of a small photography business, what's to prevent your entire computer being stolen, or even your backup harddrive misplaced and falls into the wrong hands?

Part of me says take the pictures, take the money, give him the memory cards and be done with it. Or, let him watch over your shoulder as you process the pictures and print them, make a CD of them, and then delete everything off your computer. Note: a simple 'delete' doesn't erase them, you need a 'secure delete' capability to truly make them gone forever. Alternatively, defrag your hard drive(s) after deleting them.

Lastly, as a former contract computer consultant for most of my lifetime, With rare exception, the contract specifically stated that everything I wrote was 'work made for hire' and was property of the customer. The 'work made for hire' clause is big in legal terms which I don't fully understand. At most, I may have kept a printout of some technical routine fragment, but that's about it. I could really care less about keeping the guts of a city payroll calculation program or inventory system I wrote along the way.

Maybe someday in the future, you'll get a good laugh telling friends or other clients about 'the guy who wanted to keep the RAW files' but didn't have any photo editing software or whatever. For now, get it ALL in writing, do the shoot, give him the files, and keep the money. Use some other pictures for advertising.
 
It's entirely possible the guy just can't bear the thought of the photographer laboring away in photoshop for hours and hours and hours airbrushing away on his (the customer's) penis.
 
I think OP may have bailed on this thread long ago...
 

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