Everyone thinks they can be a pro! (RANT)

[Mike_E]

If you are going to read KR's site much you really want to remember his sense of humor while you are reading. The first sentence in that essay pointed it out.

On a different note, some people around here will be happy to know he has stopped calling himself a professional photographer.

 

[JerryPH]

What happened, people stop paying him for his pics or something??? LOL!

He is a pro, and does take good pics, but he's unfortunately developed a bad reputation for himself on the net. But as they say... there is no such thing as bad advertising!

 

[manaheim]

Unfortunatly that is the direction this forum has taken over the last 2 or 3 years. At one point everyone helped everyone. Maybe it was because of the re-alignment of the different sections, splitting up the pros from the beginners. But with this new TPF, everyone seems to be bothered by others who are not as good. When we were under 1000 members, no matter how bad your photo was, somebody who had the experience to help, would. And those who were really good, us nogooders looked up to them. All of the photographers I looked up to have left cause of this. I can only name about 3 or 4 photographers I would turn to here for advice now. Newbies used to be welcomed by everyone, but now we have this division of experience. ouch.....biting my tongue here.

Actually, I kind of wish you wouldn't bite your tongue. I was first on this site some ... 3-5 years ago? Can't recall... it probably says so..

<--- right there ...

Anyway, I seem to remember there were a lot of really amazing photogs on here and I was totally floored by their work. Seems like most of those folks have left now, and I'm often wanting for them to return. The only way I can learn to be better is by seeing great works of others and learning from them. I really very much want that. There are still some amazing folks on here, but it just doesn't feel like there is as much.

Chiller, you are one of the guys I remember from when I was on before... one of the very few. If there was anything I could personally do to make this a better place, I would like to do it... given your tenure here, you're likely to be one of the few with the specific knowledge on how to make that happen.

If it's even possible, I guess.

Sorry, I don't feel like I'm being very articulate here.

 

[Alleh Lindquist]

Sorry if you&#8217;re found my statement harsh and no I don't really think everyone should give up photography as a hobby. However if you ask around it seems everyone that takes up photography as a hobby wants to make money at it.

A guy on the canon forum posted last week asking about starting up his new photography business and had a few questions about what he should do. He stated himself "Okay, so I've been building my portfolio and only have about 5 good shots (I just got my camera a couple of weeks ago"

I think that proves my point.

 

[Alleh Lindquist]

How about "a couple of Nikon SB-28's and some ebay triggers" :lmao:

Cheers, Don

I guess you don't like the idea that I suggested $200 worth of used speed lights would produce better results with your products shots than your $1000 worth of hot lights.

 

[djacobox372]

Pro = getting paid... that's it! It doesn't mean your very good, just that you convinced someone to pay you for your work.

There are many amateur photographers that are more skilled and more practiced then a the average "pro," they just don't have the need or desire to make $$ at it.

I work in the arts, but I would probably be a better artist if I didn't... being a "pro" tends to cause one to over-specialize and become isolated into a $$ making "niche," which overall hurts their development as an artist.

A pro photographer that shoots weddings every weekend isn't going to have same level of experience as a amateur that is constantly experimenting and shooting new subjects and trying new techniques.

 

[Chiller]

Photography is one of those sports that can be a hobby or a job. For example....you can not be a hobby dentist.(o.k...maybe ya'all can) or a Lawyer....but ..you can play pro golf(like Tigger there), or you can golf for fun. I find it the same as photography. I dont want to be a pro, but I want to do it as a hobby. I have some o.k equipment, that happens to allow me to grab some o.k shots. Same with other, I guess ya can say...crossover hobby/pro things. My neighbor has these top of the line golf clubs, but has no intention of playing golf as a pro but has won some $$$ in tournaments. A guy at work here paints. He has all the painting tools, and enjoys a day at the park recreating a scene.....and has made some coin selling them, but has no intention of being the next Picasso He likes his ears.

Lucky for me..a few people have offered me $$$ for my images. I dont have a business card, or a company, or any other fancy dancy photography studio equipment. Hell, I even had a movie studio offer me some HUGE coin for one of my photos for a movie poster, but meh....big deal.

My point is that, with something like photography, you are going to get people who can make a quick dollar, and people who spend their lives doing this for a living. You are going to get wannabees, and you are going to get pros. We should all just enjoy what we have today. Bloody hell...life can be snuffed out in an instance, enjoy it before you lose it.

Manahiem.....thank you for your comments. I bite my tongue a lot here, as I have seen a lot of people come and go. Now that this forum is not the 1000 members we used to have, egos, attitude and just plain idiots are going to show up. It is the internet, and they can hide behind their computers and act all la tee dah. I will judge a person by their work, not their attitude.

Back to my crypt....it is way too warm up here. :er:

 

[dEARlEADER]

A pro photographer that shoots weddings every weekend isn't going to have same level of experience as a amateur that is constantly experimenting and shooting new subjects and trying new techniques.

lol....

i take it you've never attempted wedding photography..

 

[rufus5150]

... However if you ask around it seems everyone that takes up photography as a hobby wants to make money at it.

A guy on the canon forum posted last week asking about starting up his new photography business and had a few questions about what he should do. He stated himself "Okay, so I've been building my portfolio and only have about 5 good shots (I just got my camera a couple of weeks ago"

The statistical sampling of one guy on one forum is overwhelming; thank you for that.

I think that proves my point.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

 

[Don Kondra]

I guess you don't like the idea that I suggested $200 worth of used speed lights would produce better results with your products shots than your $1000 worth of hot lights.

I was actually indifferent to your suggestion since it's not true. What prompted me to post was full disclosure. There is more than one way to light a shoot.

Two light stands from Amazon + two sets of bulbs from Alzo= ~$400. I prefer the shots I get with my CF lights over the product shots you've done for your web site with speed lights.

FYI the CF (Compact Fluorescent 5500k) bulbs are NOT considered HOT lights such as the halogen work lights.

Continuous, yes, hot, no. IMHO

Cheers, Don

 

[JerryPH]

A pro photographer that shoots weddings every weekend isn't going to have same level of experience as a amateur that is constantly experimenting and shooting new subjects and trying new techniques.

Now that's someone thats never done a wedding. "On the job" at a wedding is the LAST place you need to be learning and experimenting! If you are, you are fooling yourself that you know something, when in fact, the truth is very likely 180 degrees the other way.

I am not saying that people cannot learn while doing a wedding, but constantly shooting and experimenting is not a sign of experience nor ability either.

I know a guy that is in good health, reasonably good shape that spends 2 hours a day, 4 days a week on the driving range with a pro instructor. He spends on average $200/week on this, EVERY week! His clubs are custom made and cost him $19,000. ... yet he would give his right arm to be able to drive a ball past the 350 foot marker.

Sometimes, no matter how much time you spend doing something, you still will suck at it, even if you are guided by an experienced teacher. Now mucking along yourself, you are for all intents and purposes blindly seeking a path to improvement and some poeple won't find that path either.

Matter of fact, 90% won't get past a certain point becuase they will be so busy chasing their tails, that advance will be basically an exercise in frustration. They either eventually give up or continue to go in circles.

There are also a few that will try to fool themselves that they are something special... but trust me, they aren't.

There are very very few truly gifted photographers around... much less the additional higher challenge of being a wedding photographer.

 

[sabbath999]

I take the opposite approach than most people, and it gives me a sense of freedom.

Other than the football shots I do for the local paper (which I do because the sidelines is the best seat in the house...) nothing about my photography is "professional".

I think some of it is of decent quality, but I don't WANT to be paid for it... I have zero interest in selling anything... I was a wedding photographer for 8 years, was a full time photojournalist for a daily newspaper and was the main photographer for a weekly newspaper for a decade... and that is enough.

I do what I do because I LOVE doing it.

That gives me a completely different perspective on the "Pro's" out there...

Frankly, most of what they shoot is complete crap. The same "been there, done that" garbage day in and day out.

Photoshop actions do not equal talent. Grunge templates do not equal creativity. Green screen fake backgrounds were developed in the seventh circle of hell. Babies on beds of flowers, seniors sitting in a battered doorway in jeans blah blah blah blah blah. It's all the same thing, over and over for most "pros" couldn't care less because it puts bread on the table.

That's fine, I guess... but it doesn't mean they know jack about photography.

My .02 psi.

 

[table1349]

Now that's someone thats never done a wedding. "On the job" at a wedding is the LAST place you need to be learning and experimenting! If you are, you are fooling yourself that you know something, when in fact, the truth is very likely 180 degrees the other way.

I am not saying that people cannot learn while doing a wedding, but constantly shooting and experimenting is not a sign of experience nor ability either.

I know a guy that is in good health, reasonably good shape that spends 2 hours a day, 4 days a week on the driving range with a pro instructor. He spends on average $200/week on this, EVERY week! His clubs are custom made and cost him $19,000. ... yet he would give his right arm to be able to drive a ball past the 350 foot marker.

Sometimes, no matter how much time you spend doing something, you still will suck at it, even if you are guided by an experienced teacher. Now mucking along yourself, you are for all intents and purposes blindly seeking a path to improvement and some poeple won't find that path either.

Matter of fact, 90% won't get past a certain point becuase they will be so busy chasing their tails, that advance will be basically an exercise in frustration. They either eventually give up or continue to go in circles.

There are also a few that will try to fool themselves that they are something special... but trust me, they aren't.

There are very very few truly gifted photographers around... much less the additional higher challenge of being a wedding photographer.

Ohhhh Jerry....Jerry....Jerry. We have discussed wedding photographers before. I will just reiterate People that shoot weddings for a living are to photography what Pitchers are to professional baseball. If you know baseball you know what I mean. :lmao::mrgreen::lmao::mrgreen::lmao:

 

[manaheim]

Photoshop actions do not equal talent. Grunge templates do not equal creativity. Green screen fake backgrounds were developed in the seventh circle of hell. Babies on beds of flowers, seniors sitting in a battered doorway in jeans blah blah blah blah blah. It's all the same thing, over and over for most "pros" couldn't care less because it puts bread on the table.

We need more tirades like this. This was awesome.

(I agree, btw... I just really enjoyed the tirade)

 

[JerryPH]

Ohhhh Jerry....Jerry....Jerry. We have discussed wedding photographers before. I will just reiterate People that shoot weddings for a living are to photography what Pitchers are to professional baseball. If you know baseball you know what I mean. :lmao::mrgreen::lmao::mrgreen::lmao:

oooooooohhh.... oh heck, I don't know your real name... lol You cannot lump all wedding photographers into one pile, and in Canada, our pitchers all suck because we can't afford the big guns, and besides, we play hockey and none of our pitchers like to wear skates... but I know what you mean, respect your opinion, I just don't think that we fully agree on certain aspects of this.

S'ok, though, its all good!