External lightmeters - how do they work and uses (nature)

[Overread20]

So I keep reading about these relics from the days before digital and the instant preview histogram on the back of the camera and I've gotten curious as to their use and practical application for a photographer.

As far as I can tell for work in a studio they work well as you can move them around your controled subject area and read the light directly around the actual subject - combining this with flash to allow you fire the flashes - read the exposures (based on the exposure settings you have chosen) and then make choices about flash powers and settings based on how the light lands on different parts of your subject.
I've also read how they can work well in a constant lighting environment - where the lighting is fairly even and you just read the ambient at the meter and then shoot.


However whilst I can see their application in a studio environment and translating that to other constant light or flash dominated situations (eg studio macro shooting); I'm finding it harder to work out if there is any bonus for using an external flash meter over the internal camera one when shooting further off subjects (ie ones where you can't walk up to them).

I'm interested because sometimes you don't get the option to shoot - chimp - change and shoot again at a subject so anything that can allow me to shoot with better understanding of the light the first time is worth considering.

 

[Derrel]

Are you familiar with the difference between "incident" light metering, and "reflected" light metering? Those are the two different types of light metering methods; the in-camera light meter inside your camera measures light that is reflected from the subject matter, and as such, different subject reflectivity will lead to differing readings. Meters with white plastic domes are set up to measure the light that is incident, or falling upon, the scene or the meter's dome. This type of metering is not fooled by white cats or black cats, snow banks or coal mines. Incident light metering is/was often used with color POSITIVE films, and digital cameras, which created, basically, color positive images. NEGATIVE films work differently; the reflected light reading from a color-blind camera (like most Canon cameras) light meter will try to convert most scenes into a roughly mid-tone value, causing a black cat to be rendered gray, and causing a snowfield to be rendered as a dingy gray value---UNLESS the photographer understands how a reflected light meter is set up to work. With color positive capture media, reflected light readings for highlights need to be "closed down" from the meter's baseline readings; with color or B&W negative capture media, the reflected light meter's readings must be "opened up" to produce a denser negative to make a brighter, whiter value in the finished print.

One of the saddest things about modern measuring devices has been the adoption of SINGLE-point data read-outs and digital LED or LCD displays, which display quite often only one,single data point, and do not show the user a scale that crosses a wide range of exposure settings, and a wide range of resulting tonal values. The round, circular calculator type dials of older light meters like the Weston Master IV or the Gossen Luna-Pro SBC were mechanical marvels, which helped the user understand whete to set the "index" point in order to properly "place" the Zone Values for desired tonal rendition. The Weston Master series basically had a reasonably accurate Black and White film tonal range marked out on the dial; today, only Sekonic has a system that mimics this, with a new digital meter that one can program with customized dynamic range information from one's specific model of camera.

A quality light meter will work in both a studio and on location shoots. BUT, it depends upon the user actually understanding how the light meter functions (incident or reflected or convertible with swing-away dome?), what the meter's angle of acceptance is, and what the capture medium's tonal and exposure characteristics are like in terms of both ISO value and tone curve (or film development, ie. plus or minus or standard development). What a light meter allows one to do is to measure light, and lighting set-ups, without firing a single exposure. it allows one to pre-light set-ups, and to accurately measure lighting and exposure information, and to record that information as notes, or to transfer it to the camera. A light meter is a tool for a person who understands the science underlying photoghraphy, and who wishes to master the craft, and to be able to reliably set-up and repeat even complicated lighting set-ups,at any time,so that when it is time to shoot, the camera can be brought in, and the exposure and lighting have both already been sorted out.

 

[Mike_E]

There is no benefit to having a hand held meter if you are using a modern SLR, OK a modern SLR if it has a spot meter.

Read up on the Zone system and practice that using your camera. After practicing a while you will be able to judge the subjects well enough for perfect exposure within the frame.

 

[SunnyHours]

Thanks Derrel I wanted to know about them too...
but now that I understand more the difference I can securely say that for nature photography it won't be helpful...however I'm guessing in studio it must be an invaluable piece of equipment.

 

[Derrel]

There is no benefit to having a hand held meter if you are using a modern SLR, OK a modern SLR if it has a spot meter.

Read up on the Zone system and practice that using your camera. After practicing a while you will be able to judge the subjects well enough for perfect exposure within the frame.

Sorry, but I simply do not accept those points of view at face value. There can be a LOT of benefit to having a hand-held meter, especially with flash exposures, or with flash + daylight blended exposures. Here's the manufacturer's page for the advanced Sekonic I mentioned above. It's worth stopping by this single web page, just to see how advanced Sekonic has made its latest generation of light meters. And to see the benefit of being able to actually measure and adjust one's lighting.L-758DR DigitalMaster - Features

 

[Overread20]

Ahh looking at the Sekonic you link to it appears that it has its own viewfinder/type sensor for light reading; that certainly starts to bring in the concept of using them for landscape and other longer range applications (originally I thought they only read light at the unit itself, which confused me a little since I couldn't see how that would be more accurate for a shot than the viewfinder in the camera which was reading from looking at the spot itself when shooting further off subjects that you can't move to to put the meter in place).

I'll admit the science and theory I know currently is sketchy basic, but I'm intrigued by the idea of having a meter, stronger than what the camera has, so that I can get the first shot right rather than always having to shoot and do a little chimping for corrections

 

[dxqcanada2 1]

I use a handheld meter when shooting wildlife and landscape.

I take an indecent meter reading of the light that is falling toward my subject (as long as they are not in a shadow area) ... then I set my camera to that ... and shoot ... I do not have to worry about my camera metering something that I do not want to ... I do not have to worry about compensating my spot metering of the subject based on how much light it is reflecting.
As Derrel stated ... your in camera meter reads reflected light and provides a mid-tone value ... and you may have to place that meter reading into another zone if the subject is not in the middle.

There are some situations where I cannot use my handheld meter ... but most of the time it works when I can meter the same light that is falling on my subject. Prior to most cameras have a spot metering, many hand held meters had a reflective spot metering capability (or optional addon).

 

[table1349]

There is no benefit to having a hand held meter if you are using a modern SLR, OK a modern SLR if it has a spot meter.

Read up on the Zone system and practice that using your camera. After practicing a while you will be able to judge the subjects well enough for perfect exposure within the frame.

Yeah the average DSLR spot meter covers 9% of the overall frame. Why in the world would I want my hand held 1degree spot meter for those complicated scenes with a large amount zones of various size? Perhaps you should read more about the Zone system.

 

[Overread20]

Also from what the product blurb says it seems that the reflected light meter in the external light meter, as well as having a tighter reading spot than the DSLR, it also appears to be smarter at judging the overall exposure range on offer - esp with the talk of taking into account the camera's own dynamic range. In a way its sounding a little too good to be true (as most marketing blurbs do) and I also wonder a little how it fairs out in the field against the DSLR meter which might be similarly smart just not shouting about it in marketing.

 

[Derrel]

Also from what the product blurb says it seems that the reflected light meter in the external light meter, as well as having a tighter reading spot than the DSLR, it also appears to be smarter at judging the overall exposure range on offer - esp with the talk of taking into account the camera's own dynamic range. In a way its sounding a little too good to be true (as most marketing blurbs do) and I also wonder a little how it fairs out in the field against the DSLR meter which might be similarly smart just not shouting about it in marketing.

IT HAS ONE TASK--measuring light and calculating light. It's not too good to be true; this is what a modern top-line light meter can do. Typically, a quality light meter can meter light that is dimmer than a camera meter can register, as well as light that is brighter than a camera can handle. Before you go about publicly doubting the statements that the Sekonic company makes about its top-grade light meter's capabilities, it might behoove you to learn at least something about what you are talking about.

 

[Overread20]

Ahh someone owns a lightmeter don't they

But I always try to have a bit of an open mind when reading marketing blurb by companies - remembering that their intent is always to sell. Sometimes they word things to sound a little better than they are or gloss over specific details and limitations - nothing bad, but just making sure it all has a positive spin.

And yes I am learning this - which is why I asked the question - of course I get the feeling that this area is one of those where its not until you've tried - and learnt to use the tool that you can start to appreciate its worth in the field.

 

[tirediron]

There is no benefit to having a hand held meter if you are using a modern SLR, OK a modern SLR if it has a spot meter.

Read up on the Zone system and practice that using your camera. After practicing a while you will be able to judge the subjects well enough for perfect exposure within the frame.

Sorry, that's just plain wrong. Have you ever used an external meter? Actually applied the zone-system to exposure? How do you measure incident light?

 

[tirediron]

...I get the feeling that this area is one of those where its not until you've tried - and learnt to use the tool that you can start to appreciate its worth in the field.

Very true; modern built-in meters do a good job in most situations, but once you've had the chance to use a good, hand-held incident/flash meter, you'll wonder how you ever got along without it. You can get some great bargains on eBay; I recently picked up a Luna Pro F (Flash, incident, reflected) for <$100 CDN.

 

[Mike_E]

There is no benefit to having a hand held meter if you are using a modern SLR, OK a modern SLR if it has a spot meter.

Read up on the Zone system and practice that using your camera. After practicing a while you will be able to judge the subjects well enough for perfect exposure within the frame.

Sorry, that's just plain wrong. Have you ever used an external meter? Actually applied the zone-system to exposure? How do you measure incident light?

Have you ever read the original post in this thread? Go back and try it again if you thought you had.

Th OP stated that the usefulness for a meter in studio was apparent but was wondering whether one would be useful to get rather than just using his cameras -- "I'm finding it harder to work out if there is any bonus for using an external flash meter over the internal camera one when shooting further off subjects (ie ones where you can't walk up to them).".

Neither My spot meter nor my Luna Pro can manage an Incident meter reading if I can't 'walk up to the subject'. Yes I can turn around and approximate one but that is a make do answer at best.

As far as 9 degrees on a spot meter WTF?? What are you shooting? My Nikon is 3 degrees at 70mm and LESS than 1 degree @ 200mm! If the OP is undecided on simply using one why in the world are you guys trying to sell him a $700 one? Because you have one?

Why not help a guy out and suggest ways that he can get a feel for using one to let him decide whether or not he would like one rather than making pronouncements on what he must have and use.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

If the OP is undecided on simply using one why in the world are you guys trying to sell him a $700 one? Because you have one?

Why not help a guy out and suggest ways that he can get a feel for using one to let him decide whether or not he would like one rather than making pronouncements on what he must have and use.

Pro photography being a business, I don't know any pros who will go spend a few hundred dollars just for the hell of it. The ones I know are, like me, pretty tight with their greens. We buy what we have to buy and nothing more.

That said, most photogs I know do studio work along with other things and, so, they need a flash meter and since no camera I know of is built with one, we buy an external one. Since we have one for the studio we end up using it in other situations.

I agree with you that it is not an absolute necessity for all photogs. I also agree with Derrel's view of them. This is all a way of saying: think about what it is you are trying to achieve before spending the money.

The first time I watched "War Photographer" about Nachtwey, I kind of laughed at his using an external meter. Frankly, when I was shooting war, the idea of carrying the extra weight would have seem insane to me... I used my SLR as my meter for my meterless rangefinder, . I don't think it took any longer and the SLR was already hanging off my neck, lol.

Different generations of photogs have different experiences and views. None of them are bad per say. Just different.

But, yes, that means that each photog needs to think for him/herself and buy what is appropriate for him/her only.