First attempt at producing mediocre star trails. Help me improve please.

[shefjr]

I have two things on this photo that I see as wrong. One I know the composition leaves a lot to be desired (trying to get the craft down at home before worrying about going somewhere to get the perfect composition) and two, the trees are purple (this is due to Christmas lights or maybe LENR). With these issues being pointed out, what could I have done to make this image more appealing? How and where can I improve?

I focused manually to just slightly before infinity. I made this choice because I had nothing that the d7k would focus on in these low light conditions. Honestly, I couldn't see anything out of the viewfinder nor in live view.
I used a shutter speed of 30 minutes (bulb)
ISO100
14mm
F/8 (I was thinking maybe next time I should increase this another stop or two f/11 or f/16)
I also had LENR (long exposure noise reduction) turned on. (I wonder if this could also be why the trees have turned purple. I have never seen what that looks like.)
I didn't use the MUP (mirror up) function because I thought that with a 30 minute exposure I wouldn't need to be concerned with a moment of vibration.
There was no wind tonight and I was using Giottos mt9360 tripod(heavy) with a giottos mh1300 ballhead.
Additionally a remote shutter/intervalometer release was used.
The white balance was set at 3,000k. (brought down from 3600 in pp)

Also please note that I have taken bits of information from two great threads on this site. To any new member, I would suggest taking a look they are excellent!
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/articles-interest/276016-shooting-night-pictures-stars-stuff.html Written by; Sw1tchFX (More about stars scapes)
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...naheims-ultimate-guide-night-photography.html Written by; manaheim (more about city scapes)


Star Trails 12-12-12 by Shefjr, on Flickr

So again, what am I missing and please other than the composition, what do I need to do to improve?

Thank you in advance. :hail:

 

[ceeboy14]

Just taking a quick glance at it, there seems to be quite a bit of ambient light coming from bottom right to mid, upper left. This is going to take away from your trails and depending on the source of the light, add unwanted color which in this case doesn't bother me as much as the fact you have this much in the first place. I haven't done star trails digitally, so I am probably not the best source of information and honestly, it's been close to 30 years since I did them on film, but seem to recall a much longer exposure time than 30 minutes. I wonder if you bumped the ISO up to 320 or 400 that perhaps 30 minutes would prove sufficient time... Somebody else out there??

 

[Mully]

ISO needs to be 1600+

 

[fjrabon]

Biggest problem is your ambient light to sky darkness ratio is way off. It won't matter at all what your settings are in a case like that, because anything you do to make your star trails brighter will make your ambient too bright.

Your only option in a case like that are multiple exposures, one long one for the dark part of the sky sky, one for the lighter part, one for everything else. Then layer masking them together.

 

[shefjr]

Just taking a quick glance at it, there seems to be quite a bit of ambient light coming from bottom right to mid, upper left. This is going to take away from your trails and depending on the source of the light, add unwanted color which in this case doesn't bother me as much as the fact you have this much in the first place. I haven't done star trails digitally, so I am probably not the best source of information and honestly, it's been close to 30 years since I did them on film, but seem to recall a much longer exposure time than 30 minutes. I wonder if you bumped the ISO up to 320 or 400 that perhaps 30 minutes would prove sufficient time... Somebody else out there??

ceeboy14, you are right about the ambient light. Buffalo is about 10 miles north of my location. I didn't think that the light would affect the photo as much as it did. I could have composed in a different direction but I wanted to capture stars circling the north star. I chose not to do an exposure longer than 30 minutes to start because with the LENR turned on a 30 minute exposure turns into an hour exposure. I was just trying to get the bugs worked out before shooting a longer one. I did attempt an exposure prior to this one where I actually had 2 stops faster on the ISO (400) and the photo was blown out. I actually was thinking that I should stop down even further to help prevent the ambient light from blowing out the scene more.
Thanks for your thoughts on this. If you have additional comments or if there is something that I am missing please feel free to respond.

ISO needs to be 1600+

Mully,
I did attempt to increase the ISO up 2 ISO stops but, it blew the photo out. In addition, I wanted to get star trails which would require a long exposure. If I were to bump up the ISO that high I would be stuck taking a roughly 2 minutes exposure at best which would not give much of a star trail at all.
If there is something that I am missing here other than 1600+ ISO I would like to hear it. This at the present though makes no sense to me with what I was trying to accomplish.
Thank you for trying to help.:thumbup:

Everything I have read says to use the lowest ISO possible. So maybe you are trolling? If not I would love to know what your reasoning is.

 

[shefjr]

Biggest problem is your ambient light to sky darkness ratio is way off. It won't matter at all what your settings are in a case like that, because anything you do to make your star trails brighter will make your ambient too bright.

Your only option in a case like that are multiple exposures, one long one for the dark part of the sky sky, one for the lighter part, one for everything else. Then layer masking them together.

Do you think that I could get away (for the sake of "testing") with taking a photo facing south. Thereby decreasing the amount of ambient light and then I might not have to worry about layer masking?
I know I'm not gonna catch the north star but, I could still have star trails crossing my photo. This right now is more about me trying to get down creating star trails and not as much about composition. There are some nice places but it will involve me traveling a distance and I don't want to go and take a bunch of practice shots on location. I would much rather get as many of the bugs worked out at home first.

 

[thereyougo!4]

ISO needs to be 1600+

i disagree. There will likely be some added noise from a long exposure as it is. This will make it too bright over a long exposure of 30 minutes. To keep it clean I would keep it under 800. The biggest problem here is the ambient light to the right. So another location further from the town is required.

 

[afoto]

I have a couple thoughts for you shefjr.

I have had the wonderful chance to shoot at night in some of the best places to view the night sky, and also spent a lot of time shoot around cities.

When it comes to shooting star trails, there are a lot of different options that photographers would consider to be " the right way " you just have to figure out what you like! So, having said that, here are my suggestions:

- if you are shooting in or around city lights, there is a lot of light pollution, and when you use one single long exposure often times the sky will become so bright that it makes it so you can hardly see the stars. (or even blow out as you experienced)
if you stop down to f/11 or f/16 as you suggested, yes it will allow you to have a longer shutter speed without the sky blowing out, but the camera sensor will see fewer stars.
Something that a lot of photographers do is shoot 150-400 30 second exposures and layer them together. Because your only exposing for 30 seconds, you could shoot at f/2.8 and iso 800 without to much noise. This way your sensor picks up WAY more stars, you don't have to worry about noise, and the sky stays dark so the stars stand out more.

(sorry for the bad quality, i pulled it from facebook for a quick example) multiple 30 second exposures

lions bay by abbye dahl, on Flickr

- if you are shooting somewhere with little to no light pollution, leave that shutter open as long as you want! You won't have to worry as much about the sky blowing out, and the camera sensor will pick up the stars better if your shooting with a smaller aperture and lower iso


a rushed dinner by abbye dahl, on Flickr

but trial and error is always your best bet!
good luck

 

[shefjr]

ISO needs to be 1600+

i disagree. There will likely be some added noise from a long exposure as it is. This will make it too bright over a long exposure of 30 minutes. To keep it clean I would keep it under 800. The biggest problem here is the ambient light to the right. So another location further from the town is required.

Thanks for looking thereyougo! I have to agree with you about the added noise. I really wish that the above people who said I should raise the ISO would give some sort of reasoning for why they think so.

I have a couple thoughts for you shefjr.

I have had the wonderful chance to shoot at night in some of the best places to view the night sky, and also spent a lot of time shoot around cities.

When it comes to shooting star trails, there are a lot of different options that photographers would consider to be " the right way " you just have to figure out what you like! So, having said that, here are my suggestions:

- if you are shooting in or around city lights, there is a lot of light pollution, and when you use one single long exposure often times the sky will become so bright that it makes it so you can hardly see the stars. (or even blow out as you experienced)
if you stop down to f/11 or f/16 as you suggested, yes it will allow you to have a longer shutter speed without the sky blowing out, but the camera sensor will see fewer stars.
Something that a lot of photographers do is shoot 150-400 30 second exposures and layer them together. Because your only exposing for 30 seconds, you could shoot at f/2.8 and iso 800 without to much noise. This way your sensor picks up WAY more stars, you don't have to worry about noise, and the sky stays dark so the stars stand out more.

(sorry for the bad quality, i pulled it from facebook for a quick example) multiple 30 second exposures

lions bay by abbye dahl, on Flickr

- if you are shooting somewhere with little to no light pollution, leave that shutter open as long as you want! You won't have to worry as much about the sky blowing out, and the camera sensor will pick up the stars better if your shooting with a smaller aperture and lower iso


a rushed dinner by abbye dahl, on Flickr

but trial and error is always your best bet!
good luck

Afoto,

Thanks for the reply! You have given me some things to consider. I was really hoping to not have to layer a bunch of photos together at this point. I wanted to go for the simpler technique at this time. I say it's simpler simply because I'm not quite sure how I would go about stacking all of the photos together. I have been trying my hand at layering and stacking in photoshop with less than stellar results.
Your images are what I am aspiring towards. They are lovely shots! :thumbup: And after further reviewing them I noticed on your flickr you have an AMAZING Milky Way shot!!! I'm jealous and hope to someday capture a photo like that. That is one that I would love to take myself and hang up on my wall.

 

[afoto]

Thanks for the reply! You have given me some things to consider. I was really hoping to not have to layer a bunch of photos together at this point. I wanted to go for the simpler technique at this time. I say it's simpler simply because I'm not quite sure how I would go about stacking all of the photos together. I have been trying my hand at layering and stacking in photoshop with less than stellar results.
Your images are what I am aspiring towards. They are lovely shots! :thumbup: And after further reviewing them I noticed on your flickr you have an AMAZING Milky Way shot!!! I'm jealous and hope to someday capture a photo like that. That is one that I would love to take myself and hang up on my wall.

hi shefjr,

glad it was helpful, I understand about rather using one long exposure rather then stacking, but there are some pretty good star trail tutorials out there if you look, and the results can be pretty spectacular.
also i don't mean to be obnoxiously advertising, and i hope this isn't, but you should check out my website: Abbye Dahl Photography - Not a Moment in Time, But the Passage of Time its got lots of night photography if you want to take a look!