First Business Meeting

[rexbobcat]

I'm guessing you don't actually own a business either or if you do, you're not making much money LOL.

Ah. So you are a huckster.It's all cool.Sometimes if you don't have the talent, schmoozing works. Also, P.T. Barnum."There's a sucker born every minute."

Sounds like the words of a jealous loser to me. As I suspected. You have no talent and no money and no business sense. Sucks to be you. LOL.Let me also add that you should probably learn how to add a TITLE tag to your website before trying to give me business advice because having "Untitled Page" showing is very unprofessional and the first sign that you don't even know something as simple as putting your own name on your website. The fact that you are too lazy to categorize your blog post or add tags or even a title tells me all I need to know about your business sense. Good luck with that. LOL

The thing is: I'm a college student. I do this on the side. And no need to get so caustic. Your assumptions and accusations just make you sound like you don't have any other way to discuss things, so you just attack people. At least that's what I've noticed. Also: I built this site from scratch, without any templates. I'm the only person in my 'business' with the ability to produce...well...products in what I do. And I'm not talking about business sense. I have none. That's why my significant other has a degree in Business Management, and when I transfer to Austin we're going to sink much more time into this.I'm sorry that you have trouble being civil to other people. But the sexily-clad hook...I mean....models will be doing most of the talking most likely? So you can just be counting your hard earned money in the back room. So I guess that makes it a win-win.So yeah, having full ride scholarships to a university, plus making about 1k a month without flipping burgers. It's a pretty sweet deal. (Also; look at the area that I live in. The competition is not what I consider part of the elite. And yeah, I am pretty lazy since I'm taking 19 hours of classes, plus photographing the college sports team, plus working for the school's newspaper, plus delving into this venture. Yeah, lazy.)

 

[etnad0]

(I've snipped parts out of your original quote to keep things simple)

It's impressive that you're putting so much work into the planning stage. I don't understand what type of photos you will be doing, though - you mention drunk men, sexy-but-professional sales girls, and families in a flea market. I'm just curious, can you show an example of what type of photos you intend to do?

I was just saying what kind of people are at these places. Think of an outside mall that serves alcohol and has a live band playing and you have our location. The following pic is an example of the kind of shots we would take. How people pose and what they wear is up to them. At the location we will be capable of doing portfolio worthy stuff, which my partner will shoot if needed.

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/ima...s-a-picture-like-this-31967-1241728566-18.jpg

I didn't shoot this picture nor did anyone I know, but it's the closest example I could find. People that just want to remember the day or if they are out spur of the moment and want to take pics to hand out to friends and family. I'm sure once word gets out people will plan to come and take pics. We aren't charging an arm and a leg for stuff like this. $10 if they want it on CD.

The sexy women serve a purpose. Go to an attorney's office, some doctor's offices, and many other places. They hire beautiful women as secretaries, assistants, etc. The reason is because people are less guarded around women. Here in Vegas, if a man walks up to you trying to sell something, it is usually a hustle. Not always, but more times than not, and especially in the swap meet.

Some people focus on only the high end customers, but there is lots of money to be made in the low end market from people that want something semi professional, but can't afford to go full professional. I don't see why people have a problem with me catering to that market. When there are 30k people around, I'm sure we can get 200+ people per day to spend $10 per day. Being open 3 days per week will gross about $24k per month. That's on the low end.

 

[etnad0]

The thing is: I'm a college student. I do this on the side. And no need to get so caustic. Your assumptions and accusations just make you sound like you don't have any other way to discuss things, so you just attack people. At least that's what I've noticed. Also: I built this site from scratch, without any templates. I'm the only person in my 'business' with the ability to produce...well...products in what I do. And I'm not talking about business sense. I have none. That's why my significant other has a degree in Business Management, and when I transfer to Austin we're going to sink much more time into this.I'm sorry that you have trouble being civil to other people. But the sexily-clad hook...I mean....models will be doing most of the talking most likely? So you can just be counting your hard earned money in the back room. So I guess that makes it a win-win.So yeah, having full ride scholarships to a university, plus making about 1k a month without flipping burgers. It's a pretty sweet deal. (Also; look at the area that I live in. The competition is not what I consider part of the elite. And yeah, I am pretty lazy since I'm taking 19 hours of classes, plus photographing the college sports team, plus working for the school's newspaper, plus delving into this venture. Yeah, lazy.)

Actually I didn't attack anyone. YOU started with the huckster comment. Don't get mad when I point out your lack of professionalism on your own website. Being a college student is no excuse for doing it right. Somebody that doesn't bother to even put their title in the title tag shouldn't be criticizing someone else about what they are doing. If you hadn't made the comment you did in the first place, you wouldn't have gotten the response you did. Sorry you have trouble taking responsibility for your own words.

As far as lazy, I didn't say lazy in general. I said lazy in respect to your website and business. Yes, it's just plain lazy to not add a title. If you're going to do it, do the simple stuff right. You wrote your page from scratch? Why? It looks just like plenty of templates out there and you could have saved yourself hours. As you said, you have no business sense, so why are you bothering to respond and toss in your 2 cents about business?

 

[etnad0]

Man, I hate to say this but you have a horrible attitude. You are way off base here, this isn't burgers it's art and you will be based 100% on the quality of your work; if your lucky you'll get a couple "well he's a great guy but his work is not too great".

Customer service is VERY important but unless you can back it up with results you will fail.

Sorry but that's the truth buddy.

-B

I only have an attitude with people that think they can say what they want, make false assumptions, etc. but think I shouldn't say something back and no, nothing is ever based 100% on quality of work. If that was the case, McDonald's wouldn't be in business. Many TV shows you see on TV wouldn't be on air right now. Many books wouldn't be published. Many CDs would never come out.

Please show me some evidence of someone with great customer service and a mediocre product failing. I can show you an example of someone with a great product failing for lack of business. In fact, walk into Borders Book Store... Oh that's right, they don't exist anymore. They had the same books as everyone else, but their customer service sucked, the store layout sucked, and they weren't author friendly. Same quality of product as Barne's and Noble, but they sucked.

There is a lady down the street that mostly sells independent music on consignment. The music sucks most of the time. The packaging sucks most of the time, but she's been in business over 30 years because she is artist friendly, she has great customer service, and people go there to buy stuff because they like her. She has some mainstream music, movies, etc. She's around and WOW Music Store isn't. WOW had that same problem as Borders.

Art is about perception. Just because you don't think it's good doesn't mean the next person will have the same opinion. I'd never pay over $200 for a picture or a painting, but there are people that spend thousands and millions on it. I think it's dumb, but that's my opinion and it has no bearing on what other people will or won't do. The fact is, good customer service, affordable product, the right location makes money. Plain and simple.

Sorry, but that's the truth buddy.

 

[etnad0]

Uh, he doesn't seem to be targeting the high end market. It's quick portraiture, not art. It sounds like cookie cutter set up, a la Sears, or Wal-Mart, so all that needs to be done is pose, and press the shutter. He seems to be catering to a lower income bracket, giving them a fun, expensive feeling experience, and they get to go home with a few images to frame and hang on their wall. He seems to be targeting a market that wouldn't think of dropping $500 for a portrait session, ever. That and the casual customer that happens to be there, and are wrapped up in having a good time, and decide to get a portrait just for fun.

I don't see a problem with that.

I'm glad you get exactly what we are doing. You are 100% right in everything you just said. Some people seem to think that photography is about high prices and expensive shots. I personally believe its about having fun. Doing high end photography, at least for me, would take the fun out of it, put too much pressure on me, and I'd no longer enjoy doing it. This way I can make money and have fun while doing so.

All my businesses that I've ever done caters to low income people. That's what I know, that's what I'm comfortable with, so that's what I do. At the last business where we sold shoes and hip hop jewelry, we'd play cards with the customers, hang out, and talk. If they brought in a CD of their own music we'd play that as well. We made a lot of money, had a ton of fun, and met some great people. When the owner of the Discount Mall started letting things go down hill and the place got dirty, we left and moved on to something else. I'm not even 30 yet and I'm just enjoying life because I don't want to work for anyone else.

The only two questions I have...since you will be serving beverages, do you fall under health codes, and, rules may have changed, but if you are playing music, do you have to pay ASCAP (?) licensing fees? At a bar I worked at, you could only play commercial radio, or the Jukebox. The Jukebox company covers the ASCAP fees. We couldn't play our own CD's, and they could be fined if they were caught doing so.

We actually nixed the cider last night. Bottled water we can do without problem. Almost every company does that here in Vegas. As far as music, Pandora set on Jazz or a playlist on some device. We won't be going through a Jukebox company. I think your bar may have been that way based on owner preference. There are several bars out here that play whatever they want. They have Jukeboxes but they don't always use them. I'm not sure though because I've never been in the bar business. I do know of several other types of businesses that do what you described, but I think it's probably easier to do that than to try to construct a play list. I'll check into it because ASCAP and BMI usually don't come checking up on people in a swap meet. lol

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Cool!

I listen to Slacker at work. I didn't look into it, because technically it's not for the showroom. I just brought that up from past experience, as a heads up. It was a while ago, and things change. LOL
Currently listening to Jazz: Classic [Non-Vocal]
This place is swingin'!

I think you have your ducks in a row too. If you can get the traffic in, you should do well. I think it's cool you are trying to give a great experience to those who may be less fortunate. I think some things can be as much about the experience, as it is the product. On a recent trip, I had a rather boring meal at a restaurant, but dined out on the 8th floor roof overlooking the city. Everything about this place screamed money, but the food was very affordable (although boring and mundane). The place was fairly busy. I'd go back just for the experience, not for the food. :thumbup:

 

[etnad0]

Cool!

I listen to Slacker at work. I didn't look into it, because technically it's not for the showroom. I just brought that up from past experience, as a heads up. It was a while ago, and things change. LOL
Currently listening to Jazz: Classic [Non-Vocal]
This place is swingin'!

I think you have your ducks in a row too. If you can get the traffic in, you should do well. I think it's cool you are trying to give a great experience to those who may be less fortunate. I think some things can be as much about the experience, as it is the product. On a recent trip, I had a rather boring meal at a restaurant, but dined out on the 8th floor roof overlooking the city. Everything about this place screamed money, but the food was very affordable (although boring and mundane). The place was fairly busy. I'd go back just for the experience, not for the food. :thumbup:

LOL. We are on the exact same page. I use to order delivery from this mom and pop deli that had decent food, but it wasn't the best. The reason I'd consistently spend money with them is because they were inside of a corner store, much like 7-11. As part of their customer service you could order ANYTHING in the store at no extra charge. If I wanted a sandwich from them, Reese's Peanut Butter Cups and cigarettes (I don't smoke) from the store, they'd grab it for me. The only thing I ever ordered with my meals were 2 liter sodas or some chips, but they would do grocery shopping if you wanted. Once I overpaid by $2.00. The owner called me, apologized, and sent the delivery lady back to give me my change. I let her keep it as a tip even though I'd already tipped her for the first trip. I loved that place, but I live to far from them to deliver to me now or I'd order something right now just thinking about it lol.

 

[Robert_Maxey]

Can you take good pics? Can he? That is the big key ingredient.

Yes and Yes, but you are wrong, pictures are only 10% of a picture business. Ask McDonald's if it's more important to run good business or make good burgers. I'm sure you can point me to 1,000 burger places that make better burgers, but don't have anywhere near the success as McDonald's.

The last business me and one of my partners was in, we had 3 competitors people had to go through before they got to us. We smashed the competition because we spoke English and hired someone Spanish. The other guys were Asians that didn't speak either very well. LOL. I'm assuming that by your comment that you are photography minded like my new partner? Not a bad thing, but sometimes the craft keeps you blind to the business and vice versa, which is why we make a great team.

Our business is the equivalent to a photo booth at a wedding or a Glamour Shots in a mall, but without the cheesiness. Once we take care of the necessary paper work, I'll share our business card that I designed yesterday.

I grew up in the business. I was taught much by a deeply dedicate photographic family. I can tell you that although business savvy is important, the final result is also important. The skill of the photographer and printer is worth more than ten percent you seem to think it is. People came to us because were better than the rest and we had experience and mad skills.

 

[etnad0]

I grew up in the business. I was taught much by a deeply dedicate photographic family. I can tell you that although business savvy is important, the final result is also important. The skill of the photographer and printer is worth more than ten percent you seem to think it is. People came to us because were better than the rest and we had experience and mad skills.

1. What part of photography skill filed the business documents?
2. What part found business insurance?
3. What part picked a business location?
4. What part negotiated the lease?
5. What part managed the account?
6. What part handled customer service?
7. What part handled marketing?
8. What part prepared the taxes?
9. What part calculated overhead?
10. What part took the picture?

Look at that, 9 out of 10 business items have absolutely nothing to do with photography, making it only 10% of the big picture. You can't negotiate a shop lease with knowledge of ISO or Shutter Speed. LOL.

Sure your pictures kept them coming back, but the business savvy is what kept your business from going away. Food for thought.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Dante? is your username, your name backwards?

Anyway...Once your business is started, and you are done with most of your 1-10 list, it really comes down to Product Quality, and Marketing. Yes, there is clerical work, but that doesn't really count towards success. It's basically a chore that has to be done, like sweeping the floor. What will maintain business is quality that keeps them coming back, and marketing that gets new customers. It's pretty simple. Just because you are a pro at dealing with 1-9, doesn't guarantee success. It's #6 and #10 that count the most.


You know I am not bashing you, cuz as I said before, it looks like you have all your ducks in a row, and have an interesting niche product/service. You just can't keep touting that it's more about business skill. It is both.

 

[Robert_Maxey]

I grew up in the business. I was taught much by a deeply dedicate photographic family. I can tell you that although business savvy is important, the final result is also important. The skill of the photographer and printer is worth more than ten percent you seem to think it is. People came to us because were better than the rest and we had experience and mad skills.

1. What part of photography skill filed the business documents?
2. What part found business insurance?
3. What part picked a business location?
4. What part negotiated the lease?
5. What part managed the account?
6. What part handled customer service?
7. What part handled marketing?
8. What part prepared the taxes?
9. What part calculated overhead?
10. What part took the picture?

Look at that, 9 out of 10 business items have absolutely nothing to do with photography, making it only 10% of the big picture. You can't negotiate a shop lease with knowledge of ISO or Shutter Speed. LOL.

Sure your pictures kept them coming back, but the business savvy is what kept your business from going away. Food for thought.

Most of the above handled by lawyers and accountants. Employees handled customer service. We were word of mouth except for an ad in the phone book. No advertising to speak of from 1890 onward. All combined, everything on your list was largely ignore day to day because most of your list were of no concern day to day. For example, negotiating a lease is not something on our minds every day. And if we were relocating every week, sure we would think about leases every day. Fact is, we were in one building for a very long time. You really must try harder to make a point.

 

[Smitty91]

I'm sure we can get 200+ people per day to spend $10 per day.

I too think you have your ducks in a row and have considered quite a bit. I have personally learned a couple things from this thread. But I do have one question from the quote above... what data or information are you using to base the 200+ customers/day?

 

[c.cloudwalker]

You know I am not bashing you, cuz as I said before, it looks like you have all your ducks in a row, and have an interesting niche product/service. You just can't keep touting that it's more about business skill. It is both.

Not always. You probably tend to look at this from the viewpoint of an accomplished craftsman who is doing and selling high end quality. But you forget that quality (just like art) is a very subjective thing. I mean, some people think black velvet paintings of Elvis should hang in the Louvres

You know, I've never forgotten the day I shot the owner of the Domino's Pizza's franchise for the DC metro area, some 20-25 years back. I mention the years because I don't think it is owned by the same person anymore.

Anyway, listening to this guy being interviewed, I was totally amazed. I learned so much in that hour and half that, after I was done shooting him, I asked if we could meet and talk. We did, he told me a few more things and I've never forgotten some of them.

And frankly, Domino's Pizza was the worst. They even said so themselves when they rolled out the new crust a few years back.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

That's true Cloud.

I did acknowledge in an earlier post about the price point of his product, and what he is doing. I should specifically say that as long as the customers find value for the money spent, it's all good. But there still is a line in there.

When Dominos, Burger King and McDonalds are brought up, we have to include other factors other than taste. Price, and convenience are part of their success. People don't drive 30 minutes (in urban areas)to get Burger King.

I prefer Papa Johns over Dominos, but I won't drive 20 minutes to get Papa Johns, and they don't deliver to my area, but Dominos does. Other local pizza shops aren't very good.

etnadO, has this going for him. He has a captive market, and is priced according to the market he plans on serving. If the quality of the images is no better than a cell phone pic, will he succeed? For his market, the image quality of a Rebel or entry Nikon will probably suffice. But there still is that line.


So, I guess we agree, no?

 

[c.cloudwalker]

That's true Cloud.

I did acknowledge in an earlier post about the price point of his product, and what he is doing. I should specifically say that as long as the customers find value for the money spent, it's all good. But there still is a line in there.

When Dominos, Burger King and McDonalds are brought up, we have to include other factors other than taste. Price, and convenience are part of their success. People don't drive 30 minutes (in urban areas)to get Burger King.

I prefer Papa Johns over Dominos, but I won't drive 20 minutes to get Papa Johns, and they don't deliver to my area, but Dominos does. Other local pizza shops aren't very good.

etnadO, has this going for him. He has a captive market, and is priced according to the market he plans on serving. If the quality of the images is no better than a cell phone pic, will he succeed? For his market, the image quality of a Rebel or entry Nikon will probably suffice. But there still is that line.


So, I guess we agree, no?

I think we absolutely agree on the main principle and we are just BSing about the details.

Such as if there is only Domino's Pizza within my delivery area, I'd rather go hungry.

:lmao: