Flash in churches

Flash Harry · Oct 25, 2007

My local catholic priest told me to get on with my job and he'd do his, I take a minimum of shots during the actual service anyway, however, I find C of E vicars are a mostly obnoxious group of people who actually think they are gods and what they say goes, they're also more likely to allow anything, if they get paid. I've yet to meet a UK vicar who allows photography during the service, I've worked from kent in the south to aberdeen in the north and they are all the same so my shots are usually staged afterwards which isn't a problem but slows the proceedings down a bit. Sometimes a good thing at weddings anyway. H

JDS · Oct 25, 2007

Wow..I didn't intend for people to get all excited.

So it looks like that all it really comes down to is the preferences of the church members/officiant/bride & groom. I always intend to respect those preferences as each case may be..I hope it didn't seem like I wanted to just do things the way I wanted regardless - I was just curious if anybody knew of any actual religious reasons to not allow it, because I'd never personally heard of any.

nossie · Oct 25, 2007

Well before this turns into a Priest bashing session shouts out to Father Tony who is now practising in Rome. :thumbup::thumbup: Not only did he allow photography, and not only encourage it but he did in fact order people into shots for me on the altar after the cermony!! "Now the brides family etc.."

A great man filling the place with good vibes. I also met him a few days later in a religous goods shop on the other side of Rome where he advised me that this was a great place to get good quality garments at a great price - it was hard not to laugh, we we're just looking for beads for a 103 year old lady back home heheh

EOS_JD · Oct 25, 2007

I try not to use flash anyway. Fast quality lenses go a long way to doing a better job and keeping the atmosphere of the ceremony intact.

I've had a mix of reactions from ministers. As the professional we should always ask what is/is not permitted. No matter that others are flashing away.

We should remember that a wedding, christening, etc are still religious ceremonies and should be given respect by all - whether you have beliefs or not. I personally don't have any religious feelings but I do have respect and I think that is important.

JD

LaFoto · Oct 25, 2007

nossie said:
...but he did in fact order people into shots for me on the altar after the cermony!! "Now the brides family etc.."

That last bit I find quite important, see?
And to tell you the truth: when even the wedding photographer was asked to refrain from flash photography during the ceremony, I find it quite a bit (or quite much even) audacious of the other members of the congregation to ignore the agreement and happily flash away... :shock: . If I were the priest, I would interrupt the ceremony and "go on strike" until they would have understood. (But we're in Germany, and it seems like things are quite a bit different here, anyway, also the significance of a wedding in people's lives, including one that involves a church ceremony. Not that it doesn't mean as much to them ... but I don't really know anyone among my friends who have spent such an awful lot of money on their weddings. No one has, and their marriages still mean a lot to them).

Johnboy2978 · Oct 25, 2007

I always ask the officiant if there is a problem w/ flash, though I try to keep it at a minimum if using it at all during the ceremony. I'm about to do my 3rd and during the first two, the officiant basically said he didn't care and wouldn't notice anyway. "Do your job and I'll do mine" they said. As Mike said, it is very annoying though when you are trying to get by w/o flash and every guest is flashing theirs ruining your shots.

Personally, I think it detracts from the ceremony as it should be a religious event and distracts others which is why I limit it as much as possible. An exception to this is when you have a B/G who don't attend church or practice any religion, but want "a church wedding" and shop around for a quaint church that will make for nice pictures. For those, I might use flash more if the officiant doesn't mind.

just my .02

nossie · Oct 25, 2007

Another thought I have about this is that since it's my wedding coming up I should decide if I want the photographer to be flashing away not the priest.
Who's paying for the gig anyway?
So some uptight Priest is gonna tell me if it's ok for me to be having photos of the event? If I want a film crew going in there for my wedding then a film crew is going in there for my wedding. I'll do all the decision making and Priest can do all the hubblybubbly bit, which by the way he's been instructed to show me and my pagan guests mercy and get to the patronizing I now pronounce you... as quickly as possible.

Oh the things I do for this woman of mine!

So I say ask the B+G what they want and then tell the Priest what you will be doing. Nicely of course.

THORHAMMER · Oct 25, 2007

at least in the really long halls where you have to stay in the back its not such a problem (your flash wont reach them 150 feet away anyways.)
Just high iso on a 200mm zoom and stop it down as much as you can and still get at least a 100 - 150th shutter you can crop into it later on.

The second they start walking back down the isle you can flash away and then follow them out .... or switch to a body thats got a wide angle plus a flash on it.

thats when it matters to flash, but those darn family members who jump in your way.... that really sucks.

Big Mike · Oct 25, 2007

So I say ask the B+G what they want and then tell the Priest what you will be doing. Nicely of course.

That's a dangerous game. If the Priest decides he doesn't want you there...you have to leave. If the couple doesn't like that...they can leave as well. You have to think of the Priest (or whoever) as the property owner and you are just the people being allowed to use the space. Also, it's their ceremony...they don't 'have to' perform the marriage if they don't want to...so you have to cater to them, as does the couple.

Worst case scenario (well maybe not worst, but it's bad) is if you ask the bride & groom if flash will be allowed. They say yes, (why wouldn't they?) so that's what you prepare for. Then you show up 10 minutes before the wedding and the priest says no-way. I've heard of this happening.

Another story I've heard of...is that a photographer talked to the priest before hand, everything was OK for them to use flash etc. Then on the wedding day, he shows up and it's a different priest (first one is sick or something). Same church but the new priest says no flash.

Moral of the story, be prepared for anything.

dpolston · Oct 25, 2007

short message... my last wedding I set up 3 strobes (and shot during the service) I would have been dead in the water without them. The church had NO windows in the sanctuary. (I wish I knew how to post photos on here... I'd show you what I mean)

BTW - how do you put a photo up on this post?

Big Mike · Oct 25, 2007

BTW - how do you put a photo up on this post?

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73415

nossie · Oct 25, 2007

That's a dangerous game. If the Priest decides he doesn't want you there...you have to leave. If the couple doesn't like that...they can leave as well. You have to think of the Priest (or whoever) as the property owner and you are just the people being allowed to use the space. Also, it's their ceremony...they don't 'have to' perform the marriage if they don't want to...so you have to cater to them, as does the couple.

I agree with all that but as my fiance will attest my attitude is if the priest doesn't like it then f* the little despot and let's get another one. They're only there to do a job for the people and if they want to get smart about it then I'll take my business else where.

Moreover though I'd say that it does need to be part of the planning, the B+G must tell the priest at the start that taking pictures is important to them and needs to be accepted and possibly present the idea of extra gear being needed. The B+G often put enormous amounts of planning into this day (unlike me) so they've a right to a perfect day on their terms.

dpolston · Oct 25, 2007

Thanks... I'll try it this way.

http://davidpolston.blogspot.com/2007/10/forum-photo.html

elsaspet · Oct 26, 2007

My husband and I have done several hundreds of weddings.
In most cases, flash is only allowed during procession/recession, and then only at a fixed place behind the last pew that people are seated in.
Why?
Because many many many unprofessional photographers never showed up at reheasal, never showed up for the church rules, and just went PJ crazy and killed it for the rest of us.
I have heard nightmares from Priest and officiants about renegade photogs who think it's all about the shot.
Meanwhile, I had to shoot out of a HOLE in a wedding I did a few weeks ago due to the past transgressions of past photogs.
This is a religious cerermony on many occassions. This is not a photo op.
You can recreate it if you need to.
(BTW-I started a thread on another forum about the abuses brought on photogs because of unrespectful photogs-it's well over 200 posts now)
However, we wouldn't be in this mess if photographers would be respectful.
I've been told:
Photographer was lying down in the center altar area, "For a better angle".
Photographer had the bride lifting up her dress to the waist to show her garter.
Moving sacred articles for a "better photo". This included the Holy Water.
Photogs using non stop flash, running up and down the aisles.
Shooting over the officiant's shoulder. EVEN RESTING THIER CAMERAS THERE.
If you ever wonder why we have it so bad........look at our community.
I worked one church where I was not allowed to take any ceremony pictures AT ALL.
I've spoken online to others who defended themselves by saying, "I would never shoot there again so I disregarded all the rules".
Well good for you. You just ruined it for every other photog following you, and every bride who wanted a nice photo of her ring exchange. Yay. You rule. You got the shot.
Now, others won't.

Johnboy2978 · Oct 26, 2007

nossie said:
I agree with all that but as my fiance will attest my attitude is if the priest doesn't like it then f* the little despot and let's get another one. They're only there to do a job for the people and if they want to get smart about it then I'll take my business else where.

Moreover though I'd say that it does need to be part of the planning, the B+G must tell the priest at the start that taking pictures is important to them and needs to be accepted and possibly present the idea of extra gear being needed. The B+G often put enormous amounts of planning into this day (unlike me) so they've a right to a perfect day on their terms.

I think you're a little misguided here. This is after all, a religious ceremony. You as a photographer, are not the main attraction, nor are the pictures. It's a religious celebration and it should be treated w/ respect.