For anyone who shoots action....

SNBniko · Apr 2, 2011

GAP Photo said:
I think that you have the message, but in reality, you can't do action sports, especially indoor without this F2.8 70-200mm lens.

I'm a little confused by your post... are you saying I have the right idea from my pictures, but really do need that lens to up my game, or are you saying I've deluded myself into 'needing' that lens when really I could do without? I'm sorry if I'm missing something simple!

SNBniko · Apr 2, 2011

gsgary said:
I use a 300mmF2.8L ,70-200F4L ,200F2.8L, 24-70, but a 300F4L is good

Dogs

Horses

motorsport

Are some of the lenses you listed ffl? If so, how does that work, if you are just a spectator? Or do you get special clearance to set up where you need to be to capture the right shot?

Overread · Apr 2, 2011

I'll add that when it comes to action photography you often need to use higher ISOs. In your first horse shot you've used what I consider to be a good shutter speed as it has frozen the details and the motion - however the light is not enough so you've got two further options to improve the exposure:
Wider aperture - smaller f number (which you've gathered from this thread already)
Higher ISO - get the exposure right and you can get pretty high with this, yes it comes at a cost of noise, but you can control and reduce that with a proper exposure and with editing - the blur from motion though you can't fix.

You used ISO 400 in the horse shot - so I'd have say ISO 800 or 1600 would have been better (and on the 7D 1600 should be very usable with a good exposure).

In addition with regard to the 70-200mm comments and teleconverters. First up I agree that idealy you need/want the f2.8 versions for the additional light gathering. This helps not only improve your shutter speeds when in lower light conditions, but also helps your AF (and the 7D has a cracking AF once you tame it through custom functions) since there is more light to gather and supply to the AF sensors.
Now you can put a 1.4TC on any of the 70-200mm lenses (f4 or f2.8) and keep AF and also have very good image quality. Of course you lose one stop of light so f2.8 becomes f4 and f4 becomes f5.6 (so again its promoting the getting of the f2.8 lens) but you gain range up to 280mm at the long end.
When it comes to the 2*teleconverter that would take away two stops of light - so you'd need an f2.8 lens otherwise you lose auto focus (AF stops on any camera body that isn't 1D line once the lenses widest aperture is smaller than f5.6 - the 7D can however get past this in live view mode only, but its AF then is slower than normal). You'd only go for the 2*TC if you need more reach - then you'd have a 140-400mm capable lens. However its image quality takes a bigger hit than from the 1.4TC. In general the common view is that the 70-200mm f2.8 lenses can't take a 2*TC that well (some disagree and say its fine - but the majority don't like the setup). That is with the exception of the 70-200mm f2.8 IS L M2 (yeah the really really expensive one - sorry

) which can take the 2*TC and deliver a good image quality.

gsgary · Apr 2, 2011

they all are i would never buy EFS lenses, these were shot with press passes

Overread · Apr 2, 2011

Gary I think Bniko meant about them being fixed focal length and having trouble getting the ideal shots when you can't zoom

imagemaker46 · Apr 2, 2011

The biggest concern with the 70-200 2.8 is that the front of the barrel becomes loose and is difficult to get it fixed just right. If you ever look for one ask about the front of the barrel, the joint in front of the focus ring. It's really a workhorse lens, and if someone is selling one, unless they are upgrading to a new version, chances are that you'll find this problem.

SNBniko · Apr 2, 2011

Overread said:
I'll add that when it comes to action photography you often need to use higher ISOs. In your first horse shot you've used what I consider to be a good shutter speed as it has frozen the details and the motion - however the light is not enough so you've got two further options to improve the exposure:
Wider aperture - smaller f number (which you've gathered from this thread already)
Higher ISO - get the exposure right and you can get pretty high with this, yes it comes at a cost of noise, but you can control and reduce that with a proper exposure and with editing - the blur from motion though you can't fix.

You used ISO 400 in the horse shot - so I'd have say ISO 800 or 1600 would have been better (and on the 7D 1600 should be very usable with a good exposure).

In addition with regard to the 70-200mm comments and teleconverters. First up I agree that idealy you need/want the f2.8 versions for the additional light gathering. This helps not only improve your shutter speeds when in lower light conditions, but also helps your AF (and the 7D has a cracking AF once you tame it through custom functions) since there is more light to gather and supply to the AF sensors.
Now you can put a 1.4TC on any of the 70-200mm lenses (f4 or f2.8) and keep AF and also have very good image quality. Of course you lose one stop of light so f2.8 becomes f4 and f4 becomes f5.6 (so again its promoting the getting of the f2.8 lens) but you gain range up to 280mm at the long end.
When it comes to the 2*teleconverter that would take away two stops of light - so you'd need an f2.8 lens otherwise you lose auto focus (AF stops on any camera body that isn't 1D line once the lenses widest aperture is smaller than f5.6 - the 7D can however get past this in live view mode only, but its AF then is slower than normal). You'd only go for the 2*TC if you need more reach - then you'd have a 140-400mm capable lens. However its image quality takes a bigger hit than from the 1.4TC. In general the common view is that the 70-200mm f2.8 lenses can't take a 2*TC that well (some disagree and say its fine - but the majority don't like the setup). That is with the exception of the 70-200mm f2.8 IS L M2 (yeah the really really expensive one - sorry ) which can take the 2*TC and deliver a good image quality.

I had it on autoISO, and that was a mistake. I'll have to manually set it. That was my first time taking pictures of the horses kicking their heels up, and I won't have another opportunity for another month or so... my horse is leased out closer to my home, and I'm away at school. I have honestly never played with the exposure... should I try bumping it up a little? (I mean, I have tried the occasional HDR with AEB, but... well, I really hate PP because I am not good at it, ha. It takes me forever to figure out what I'm doing, let alone getting it done. I hope to take a Photoshop class this summer at the local arts center so I can get the hang of it).

I have tried playing with the AF functions, but I really don't know what I'm doing there either. I have this big honkin' book written by David Busch about the 7D, but I still couldn't really make sense of what setting I should have the AF on for tracking action. When I'm taking pictures of the dogs, it doesn't seem like it tracks at all... the first and second photos are in focus, and the rest are not. I try to set the focus ahead of time and let them run into it, if that makes sense. And then there's the focus priority and the shutter priority. Gah! I am so confuzzled.

Yeah, I just went to the local camera shop and got a quote on those two lenses... I won't be getting the 'really' expensive one when I'm already whining about the cost of these two. So... what would be the going price for my current lens? 24-135mm, with hood, UV and CPL filters? Haha.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

SNBniko · Apr 2, 2011

Overread said:
Gary I think Bniko meant about them being fixed focal length and having trouble getting the ideal shots when you can't zoom

Correct. =)

imagemaker46 said:
The biggest concern with the 70-200 2.8 is that the front of the barrel becomes loose and is difficult to get it fixed just right. If you ever look for one ask about the front of the barrel, the joint in front of the focus ring. It's really a workhorse lens, and if someone is selling one, unless they are upgrading to a new version, chances are that you'll find this problem.

Okay, so used is double risky. Can you feel if it's loose just by touching it, or is it a focus thing?

412 Burgh · Apr 2, 2011

LOVE the action shots. I'm going to try shooting some the next chance I get.. Hopefully this upcoming week.

Overread · Apr 2, 2011

Auto ISO isn't nessessarily a bad setting on the 7D since you can let it go pretty high without too much worry - however what you did have set was exposure compensation bias. This was set to -1/3rd exposure so your camera was metering to underexpose the shot from the start (Which explains why the shot appears darker than it should). Now when it comes to shots you can recover from some underexposure and from some noise, but if you have underexposure and a high ISO you'll get a lot more noise than if you have a higher ISO still and a correct exposure.

I would encourage you to though gain a mastery of using aperture (av) priority mode and balance the control of your ISO yourself. For action this is a popular mode since you can control your depth of field and how much light you let in (aperture) and let the camera balance the shutter speed to the ISO and aperture you set (you can do the same in manual, but if the light is changing a fair amount or your subject is moving through changing lighting you'll have to be always adjsuting the shutter speed yourself - AV the camera just does it for you - and its faster and never misses).

As for editing you won't learn it by avoiding it - get stuck in and play around with it. You might find the following two sits have some good editing adice you can make use of:
Ron Bigelow Photography Articles
Digital Photography Tutorials
Digital Photography Techniques

As for AF I'd say keep it simple to start with and leave the custom functions alone for the moment. Gain an understanding over its basic control and application and then once you come to read the more advanced stuff it will make more sense (its not actually too complicated, but it can be when facing it for the first time).

SNBniko · Apr 2, 2011

Was it set for -1/3? I didn't mean to if it was... hm. Well bummer! It's set at zero now. I have tried (and tried and tried and tried) to get pictures in the indoor arena at the barn (during the day time, no artificial lighting), and it is really tough. Maybe I should fire up the tungsten lights, adjust my WB and play with the ISO? Or I can make some cruddy lighting tonight and take pictures of the dogs. I have a general idea, I'm just scared of noise because I don't know how to get rid of it without losing a ton of detail. I have always used 'Tv' mode play with shutter speed... I was getting some blur in Av, but it's a great possibility I was using it wrong.

And for the editing I knowwwwww. *trudges over to laptop and starts photoshop* /whine I'll go through and try and fix some of the photos I put up for critique as well. =) Thanks again!