For those shooting with a Canon 20d

msf · Mar 23, 2009

Im going to buy a 2nd camera body, either to replace my main camera 350d or as a backup. I was going to buy another 350d since I dont want to go with the newer xs because it uses sd memory cards. Then I realized I could get a 20d for not much more money.

So my question for those with a 20d, what is it about the camera that annoys you? Ive held this camera in the store a few times, and I dont really like how the menu system is on the back, but maybe once I get use to it, it wont be that bad. Im just wondering how you scroll through a picture close up with a rotating ring, instead of using 4 directional buttons like the 350d.

My main concern is , how is the noise levels compared to the 350d? I believe they are basically the same camera, but 20d is made more rugged, and some features unlocked. But I could be wrong, im basing this on the 300d and 10d.

The 350d is a bit noisey for my liking, especially at 800 and 1600. I try to avoid shooting at that level, but sometimes you don thave a choice indoors. I would love to get a 5D because of how good it handles noise, and a few other things, but that wont happen for a little while.

Big Mike · Mar 23, 2009

I shoot with a couple 20Ds...it was the best 'mid range' DSLR camera for several years...and is still pretty darn good.

Yes, the 10D & the 300D were pretty much the same camera with some features disabled...but I think Canon learned their lesson with that one. I haven't used a 350D but while the actual sensor may be similar...the 20D was usually reported to have better image quality...but it's the better body & features that really make it better. So it's more than just an 'unlocked 350D'.

As I mentioned, I've never used a Rebel for anything besides playing around with one...but I can say that I didn't like the buttons or the menus compared to the 20D. The 20D (and it's successors) have more direct access buttons etc, so that you don't have to go into the menus as often. And the wheel, is the best thing since sliced bread. There is a 'joy stick' that you use to move around the images on the LCD...it also controls your selection of AF point while shooting.

I believe that the 20D is better at ISO 800 & 1600...than the 350D...but there has been a big improvement in this area with the newer cameras. I don't know...but I would think that the XSi and maybe the XS would be better than the 20D in high ISO performance.

msf · Mar 23, 2009

Big Mike said:
I shoot with a couple 20Ds...it was the best 'mid range' DSLR camera for several years...and is still pretty darn good.

Yes, the 10D & the 300D were pretty much the same camera with some features disabled...but I think Canon learned their lesson with that one. I haven't used a 350D but while the actual sensor may be similar...the 20D was usually reported to have better image quality...but it's the better body & features that really make it better. So it's more than just an 'unlocked 350D'.

As I mentioned, I've never used a Rebel for anything besides playing around with one...but I can say that I didn't like the buttons or the menus compared to the 20D. The 20D (and it's successors) have more direct access buttons etc, so that you don't have to go into the menus as often. And the wheel, is the best thing since sliced bread. There is a 'joy stick' that you use to move around the images on the LCD...it also controls your selection of AF point while shooting.

I believe that the 20D is better at ISO 800 & 1600...than the 350D...but there has been a big improvement in this area with the newer cameras. I don't know...but I would think that the XSi and maybe the XS would be better than the 20D in high ISO performance.

Thanks for the quick response.

The menu system on the 350 isnt to bad. Except for formatting the memory card, I can usually get to the menu stuff I use with one click.

If the xs used cf cards I may consider that one. Perhaps the 30d, hmm.

How good is the noise reduction in the 20d? is it better to use helicon? I find helicon a bit annoying because I forget which images I shoot at high iso and then its a bit of extra work. I need to find a noise reduction plugin for photoshop, preferably free.

Big Mike · Mar 23, 2009

The 'long exposure noise reduction' on the 20D and other Canon cameras of that era...isn't something I use. I'm not sure how it works...but it takes as long to run, as the length of the exposure....and you can't continue to shoot while it's running. So after the first time I ran into that, I turned it off and never turned it back on again.

I honestly don't adjust any of the in-camera image settings. I shoot in RAW and adjust it all on the computer.

You can shoot at 800 or even 1600 and get 'usable' shots...but the key is nailing your exposure. Expose Right. If you are underexposed, the noise really comes out...especially if you try to bring it up in post. I typically don't use noise reduction...but when I do...I just use the tools available in Photoshop.

Seefutlung · Mar 23, 2009

I've been using the 20D for years and it is a great camera. (recently upgraded)

Up to an 8x10 I find no significant difference in IQ between my 5D/1DsMKII and 20D at 1SOs of 1600 and less.

I find that Canon's free RAW conversion software DPP does a decent/acceptable job on noise. I belong a a photo group and there isn't any significant difference in IQ between the 20D, 30D and 40D. For action shot the 5FPS is great. If you chimp a lot the small LCD of the 20D will be annoying ... other than that I do not think you'll be disappointed.

Gary

PS- Mike is on the money regarding noise and proper exposure. A slightly underexposed ISO 800 image will have more noise than a properly exposed ISO 1600 image.
G

JerryPH · Mar 23, 2009

I have a camera buddy that is selling his 20D. If someone is interested, I could get him to come here and post the info.

msf · Mar 23, 2009

JerryPH said:
I have a camera buddy that is selling his 20D. If someone is interested, I could get him to come here and post the info.

How much is he asking? How many pictures has he taken? Any hot pixels?

I will probably buy off of ebay from a seller thats been around a while. I have a price point in mind, since ive seen them go for that price on ebay in the past. Just seems the ones I do watch never go for that, but if I ignore it, it does, go figure.

There was a sweet one a couple of days ago, but it went outside my bidding range. It came with a couple of lenses that if sold seperately could have made $125 to $150 after fee's.

Is the EF-s 18-55 IS lens much better than the non IS version?

I find I use my kit lens the most because of the crop factor, 50mm is often to close. Im going to buy a good L lens eventually, but I have other priorities first, like backup body.

Seefutlung · Mar 23, 2009

The newer 18-55 IS kit lens is quite good ... the older non-IS is a bit of a dog.

Gary

msf · Mar 23, 2009

Seefutlung said:
The newer 18-55 IS kit lens is quite good ... the older non-IS is a bit of a dog.

Gary

Do any of you use the BG-E2 battery grip? How do you like it?

Im trying to decide if I want to go for that with this camera. I have one for my 350d, mostly to make it more comfortable to hold since its smaller, and to use AA batteries which are easy to replace in an emergency than the canon batteries.

Since the 20d is larger, I may not need the grip to make it better to hold, but the AA would be a good reason.

There seems to be alot of them on ebay, which are a fair bit cheaper than bhphoto, so im wondering whats wrong with them.

Seefutlung · Mar 23, 2009

msf said:
Do any of you use the BG-E2 battery grip? How do you like it?

Im trying to decide if I want to go for that with this camera. I have one for my 350d, mostly to make it more comfortable to hold since its smaller, and to use AA batteries which are easy to replace in an emergency than the canon batteries.

Since the 20d is larger, I may not need the grip to make it better to hold, but the AA would be a good reason.

There seems to be alot of them on ebay, which are a fair bit cheaper than bhphoto, so im wondering whats wrong with them.

A grip is one of the first things I buy with a new camera. Easier to go vertical, extends battery life to the camera (I shoot a lot of sports just easier having battieries in one place and the grip helps balance the extra weight of a long lens).

And, while the 20D is a tad larger than the XT/XTi, you will notice that the body is about three fingers deep ... causing the pinky to hang out there all by itself in mid-air.

Gary

THORHAMMER · Mar 23, 2009

I'm still using this old camera, Loving it. The size and weight is perfect. using the wheel is the best thing ever, much much faster. The speed of startup, taking pictures and the speed of flipping through them is fast too. The body is almost indestructible and if you get the grip its fantastic.

msf · Apr 1, 2009

I finally managed to get one from ebay for a price that I liked.

So I have a couple questions for those here.

1. It didnt come with a battery grip, so until I find one, Im wondering what generic batteries are dependable. Anyone know?

2. I have the shutter release cord for the XT, but according to dpreview the 20d uses a different one. I wonder if something like this Shutter Release Cable for Canon EOS 5D 40D 30D 20D New - eBay (item 110370265991 end time Apr-04-09 18:26:50 PDT) is dependable. Its only $7, but a basic shutter release shouldnt be that complicated to make. Ive heard of people using headphones from dollar tree with a mute button to trigger the shutter.

And 3, just incase I have to get the camera cleaned, is ritz camera dependable? I think its the only pro shop within 100 miles of here. I wonder how much they charge for that, Ill have to stop in sometime.

THORHAMMER · Apr 1, 2009

Get the grip, you'll love it. Also I don't know about batteries but I know the canon ones last like 5 years without losing charges much.
Always use the AA batt as a secondary option, not first as the lithium will give you like 1500 shots off a charge for both.

Just pay the 7 bucks for the Russian cable release , you'll spend hours trying to make it fit the opening anyways. If you buy that also silicone over wherethe cable comes out of the release body, the cheap one can get lose at that point, otherwise it's identical to the 50$ one.

Cannon just ended their free cleaning, I dunno who to go to now. I also need advice on that....

BTW....the wheel is the best thing ever!!!!

How do you like the speed of shooting VS your 350?

msf · Apr 2, 2009

Im waiting on the shipping, but once I get the 20d, Ill let ya know.

I plan on getting the grip, I have it for my 350d and really prefer it. feels better in my hands, and the camera stays right when I have the flash on the camera, otherwise it bounces around facing downward.

But I gotta plan my spending, the grip isnt highest priority. I want to get some vivitar 285's and some optical slave sensors so I can light up a room and background.

Wheres the best place to buy a flash cord? I dont want coiled, it keeps pulling the plug out of the camera, or pulls the flash on a tripod over onto the ground to easily. Ive searched bhphoto but didnt find anything to my liking.

Ive heard of people using power extension cords for this sort of thing, but dont know mucha bout it, but seems like a cheap way to wire a room.

THORHAMMER · Apr 2, 2009

msf said:
Im waiting on the shipping, but once I get the 20d, Ill let ya know.

I plan on getting the grip, I have it for my 350d and really prefer it. feels better in my hands, and the camera stays right when I have the flash on the camera, otherwise it bounces around facing downward.

But I gotta plan my spending, the grip isnt highest priority. I want to get some vivitar 285's and some optical slave sensors so I can light up a room and background.

Wheres the best place to buy a flash cord? I dont want coiled, it keeps pulling the plug out of the camera, or pulls the flash on a tripod over onto the ground to easily. Ive searched bhphoto but didnt find anything to my liking.

Ive heard of people using power extension cords for this sort of thing, but dont
know mucha bout it, but seems like a cheap way to wire a room.

Don't waste your time and money, buy the elinchrome skyports and some good Nikon SB flashes , also get some extension poles, opticals will fail when
you need them to perform, and the vivitars are not power consistent. Overall it's about twice as expensive but just start out with 2 lights and go from there.