Full frame camera with ISO and SS dials?

[Vince.1551]

I'm used to the Fuji X-T1 which has no mode dial. Each dial/ring has an "auto" setting. If I shoot with a defined aperture and SS on auto, it shoots in AP; if I shoot with a defined SS and aperture on auto, it shoots in SP; if I shoot with a defined SS and aperture, then it shoots in M. I think this is intuitive and easy to use, saves the hassle of having to adjust the mode dial when you adjust aperture/SS. I guess what I'm looking for is not only separate dials for ISO and SS, but also a camera where you don't have a mode dial. Instead the mode is dictated by if you set your aperture/SS on auto or not (using their respective dials/rings).

Just stick to your Fuji ...

 

[gsgary]

What do you mean by this? What 'mode'? You're already in P mode. What else do you want the camera to do? You turn a dial, and the shutter speed and aperture change. Turn it until you get either the aperture or the shutter speed you want and fire away. What does an 'appropriate mode' do at this point?

TRANSLATION
He like the gadget setup of the Fuji
and doesn't understand the dial/mode/button setup of dSLRs and how much faster they are.

I guess next time I buy a new car, I'll look for one with the headlight high-low switch on the left floorboard. And the ignition in the dash instead of on the column. And a manual H-pattern tranny. And windows with cranks. That's what I grew up with.

And if you go into an Audi showroom and they tell you their top of the range R8/A5/A7 ect have passed the highest NCAP tests don't believe them

 

[gsgary]

You mean a 36mp mirrrorless full frame, exmor sensor equipped camera that doesn't have light leaks around the lens mount, or shutter that can wake the dead? I'm there!

Yeah...but Fuji vowed to FIX that light leak issue soon after it was discovered.

..........

Huh? I was talking about the rather nasty light leak on the A7R. With the sun at an oblique angle it has light leaks around the mount and the lens release button. Creates some wicked flare when shooting landscapes late in the afternoon with the sun off to the side, say 10 or 2ish. That and the shutter issue are two of the biggest things that have kept me from picking up and A7R. Those combined with the other issues simply reinforces my opinion of Sony as a company that seems to create products that look good on spec sheets but are always cocked up with some "fatal flaw" that would be completely obvious if they had let actual consumers use it first. I just keep hoping that one of these days they'll get it right.

I didn't even know about a Fuji light leak issue, probably because I haven't looked to hard at buying a Fuji. :blushing:

You should hear what Derrel says about the focusing of your camera

 

[Scatterbrained]

Yeah...but Fuji vowed to FIX that light leak issue soon after it was discovered.

..........

Huh? I was talking about the rather nasty light leak on the A7R. With the sun at an oblique angle it has light leaks around the mount and the lens release button. Creates some wicked flare when shooting landscapes late in the afternoon with the sun off to the side, say 10 or 2ish. That and the shutter issue are two of the biggest things that have kept me from picking up and A7R. Those combined with the other issues simply reinforces my opinion of Sony as a company that seems to create products that look good on spec sheets but are always cocked up with some "fatal flaw" that would be completely obvious if they had let actual consumers use it first. I just keep hoping that one of these days they'll get it right.

I didn't even know about a Fuji light leak issue, probably because I haven't looked to hard at buying a Fuji. :blushing:

Read this carefully you will find you have to use very extreme settings which you would probably never use
Sony A7 light leak, final verdict: not a problem for 99.9+% of photographers

I read that when it came out. I've also seen real world usage that resulted in crazy haze/flair just by turning the camera a few degrees while out shooting landscapes in the late afternoon with the sun just out of frame.

 

[Derrel]

Exactly...the light leak issue on the Fuji and the Sony are mostly just egg-on-their-faces issues. I think it would be great if ALL cameras were perfect...but alas, NONE are. For the record, if somebody GAVE me a Fuji XT-1, or a Sony A7, or a Sony A7r, I would be thrilled as heck!!! I myself love "dials". And I really did LIKE the high beams on the floorboard foot-switch thing 480sparky mentioned. And the H-pattern manual transmission my Mazda RX-7 and my Ford Thunderbird Super Coupe had...those were all pretty sweet idioms...but they are now absent from my current life. "Mirrorless cameras" have loooooong had issues with light leaks due to 1)no mirror and 2) non-self-capping focal plane shutters leaking light; this issue of mirror-free cameras leaking light goes wayyyyyyy back to the early Graflex cameras of the 1890's, and also to the Leicas of the early 1930's, with the focal plane shutters that were NOT self-capping.

In fact, when Mr. Kobiyashi invented the Cosina Voigtlander 35mm film rangefinder camera in the late 1990's, he needed to put in a special version of the very popular Copal shutter; one that had a SECOND shutter curtain system, in gray, in front of the "real" focal plane shutter, because as has always been the issue when there is no mirror, the lens is ALWAYS allowing light rays into the camera as long as the lenscap is OFF!!!

No offense, but SONY has some real idiots who must have been utterely ignorant of the issues with "mirror-free" cameras and light leaks; this issue again, has been a problem since the EARLY DAYS of the focal plane shutter in the eightteen ninties (yes, eighteen hundred and ninties!). But then again, SONY has not been a camera maker for very long compared to old line companies that encountered light leak issues over a century ago, to as recently as the mid-1930's. Light leak issues are a Camera Design for Pre-schoolers kind of issue, but sometimes, even grownups forget to pay heed to the basics...

 

[gsgary]

Huh? I was talking about the rather nasty light leak on the A7R. With the sun at an oblique angle it has light leaks around the mount and the lens release button. Creates some wicked flare when shooting landscapes late in the afternoon with the sun off to the side, say 10 or 2ish. That and the shutter issue are two of the biggest things that have kept me from picking up and A7R. Those combined with the other issues simply reinforces my opinion of Sony as a company that seems to create products that look good on spec sheets but are always cocked up with some "fatal flaw" that would be completely obvious if they had let actual consumers use it first. I just keep hoping that one of these days they'll get it right.

I didn't even know about a Fuji light leak issue, probably because I haven't looked to hard at buying a Fuji. :blushing:

Read this carefully you will find you have to use very extreme settings which you would probably never use
Sony A7 light leak, final verdict: not a problem for 99.9+% of photographers

I read that when it came out. I've also seen real world usage that resulted in crazy haze/flair just by turning the camera a few degrees while out shooting landscapes in the late afternoon with the sun just out of frame.

Ive tried it a it doesn't work not with mine fitted with a Voigtlander close focus and Leica M mount lenses

 

[480sparky42 41]

#1: depends on the camera.

#2: I do not mean to sound patronizing, but I sincerely do not know how to better explain myself beyond how I explained it before. Here is what I want the camera to do, instead of giving a general overview, I will list every single possible example... (this is what X-T1 does).

There are three things I can turn on the X-T1 - aperture ring, iso dial, shutter speed dial. Each has numbers, and each has an 'A' for auto on the dial.
1. If all three are on A, then everything's auto.
2. If iso is not on A, it will shoot at what iso I pick, and auto aperture and ss.
3. if aperture is not on A, it will shoot at what aperture I pick, and auto iso and ss.
4. If ss is not on A, it will shoot at what ss I pick, and auto iso and aperture.
5. If neither iso nor aperture are on A, it will shoot at what iso and aperture I pick, and auto ss.
6. If neither iso nor ss are on A, it will shoot at what iso and ss I pick, and auto aperture.
7. If neither aperture nor ss are on A, it will shoot at what ss and aperture I pick, and auto iso.
8. If none of the three are on A, it will shoot at what iso, aperture, and ss I pick.

I want this... but in a full frame camera. By "appropriate mode" I mean the camera will do the last clause in the sentence in #1-7. Also what I mean by X-T1 does not have a mode button.

And all this......... is supposedly easier?

What you are describing is Nikon's Program mode. (Except for No1... that's the magic green Auto). No need to set ISO, SS and aperture dials to Auto. Set the Mode dial to P and you can do everything you describe.

 

[agp]

It's easy for me. I'll check out a D800 and see how that works.

 

[480sparky42 41]

It's easy for me. I'll check out a D800 and see how that works.

Any Nikon from the D7000 up will have two command dials. (D7000, 7100, 600, 800, 2, 3, 4 etc.)

 

[astroNikon]

It's easy for me. I'll check out a D800 and see how that works.

Be prepared for a shock because it doesn't work like your Fuji
It's actually simplier

 

[gsgary]

It's easy for me. I'll check out a D800 and see how that works.

And check internet for problems, like all the A7 bashers
New to D800, how to check for the "issues"? - Nikon D600/D610/D700/D800 Discussions on Nikon Rumors Forum

Nikon D800E Focus Problems: Nikon FX SLR (DF, D1-D4, D600-D800) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Adapting Camera: The Nikon D800 has serious AF accuracy problems if the AF assist light of the SB-900 is enabled

 

[agp]

I'm not quite sure why the dials are so critical, because when one moves to a full-frame d-slr system camera from either Canon, or Nikon, instead of a BRAND-NEW lens mount with a small selection of lenses and accessories, one instead gets to choose from two of the widest, deepest, and most total and complete camera and lens systems ever developed....with the MOST lenses, the most-capable specialty lenses, the best macro lenses, the most-amazing flash units (multiple models), macro flash units, and an incredible array of accessories for almost any photographic specialty areas.

I was thinking about this earlier today. To your point, I agree, Nikon and Canon do have the widest selection of lenses and that is not an advantage that should be neglected. However, because Nikon and Canon are so deeply involved in the DSLR world, their mirrorless cameras are nowhere near what their technology allows. They definitely have the capabilities to make a mirrorless as good as the X-T1, if not better, but why would they if that is going to compete against their own DSLR market? If Canon and Nikon made a reasonably-decent mirrorless that is compatible with all their lenses, I would forget about Fuji and Sony in a heartbeat.

 

[480sparky42 41]

I was thinking about this earlier today. To your point, I agree, Nikon and Canon do have the widest selection of lenses and that is not an advantage that should be neglected. However, because Nikon and Canon are so deeply involved in the DSLR world, their mirrorless cameras are nowhere near what their technology allows. They definitely have the capabilities to make a mirrorless as good as the X-T1, if not better, but why would they if that is going to compete against their own DSLR market? If Canon and Nikon made a reasonably-decent mirrorless that is compatible with all their lenses, I would forget about Fuji and Sony in a heartbeat.

Wait...... what?

I thought you wanted a FF DSLR. Now you want a mirrorless?

 

[astroNikon]

I am currently using a Fujifilm X-T1 to shoot, and I absolutely love a dedicated ISO dial and a dedicated SS dial. Coupled with the aperture ring on the lenses, tweaking any of the three components can be done in the blink of an eye. I was wondering if anyone know any full frame cameras that have dedicated ISO and dedicated SS dials?

Any FF cameras.
There's only a couple FF mirrorless
Like the Sony A7/A7R or Leica etc
or the slew of dslrs from Nikon, Canon etc

 

[agp]

I was thinking about this earlier today. To your point, I agree, Nikon and Canon do have the widest selection of lenses and that is not an advantage that should be neglected. However, because Nikon and Canon are so deeply involved in the DSLR world, their mirrorless cameras are nowhere near what their technology allows. They definitely have the capabilities to make a mirrorless as good as the X-T1, if not better, but why would they if that is going to compete against their own DSLR market? If Canon and Nikon made a reasonably-decent mirrorless that is compatible with all their lenses, I would forget about Fuji and Sony in a heartbeat.

Wait...... what?

I thought you wanted a FF DSLR. Now you want a mirrorless?

I could do with either. See post 5