Getting Paid

[Alpha]

Substitute "photographer" wherever you hear "writer." This is EXACTLY what the industry is like.



*Warning: Contains Profanity*

 

[Sw1tchFX]

amazing, because it IS true, the amateurs that just got a new DSLR who can't shoot the broad side of a barn cutting down the people who not only have talent, but are trying to put food on the table.

I had about 7 people this year ask me to do their senior portraits for free. I haven't done senior portraits much, but I tell you what, I sure as hell ain't doing them for free because I know i'm cleaner and faster than alot of the competition that pays $200 per session-minimum. I've seen the yearbooks.

 

[craig]

Nice. Sensitive topic for sure. Have to say that I agree with a lot of what he is saying. If we call ourselves photographers then we have to charge a premium price. For a while I charged a low rate. I quickly realized my skills and figured out that my client was not "walking around looking for handouts".

Love & Bass

 

[craig]

Hmmm... I am bummed that there are not a million replies to this thread.

Love & Bass

 

[Alpha]

I expected a lot of people to jump in and complain about how too many pros are prejudiced against amateurs, yada yada...ad nauseum. I think what Ellison is saying makes perfect sense. The problem, like he said, is that it creates a market in which people expect to get work for nothing or next to nothing. People tend to be cheap, and that's just a fact of life. Anyone who asks a pro to work for so little already knows that the amateurs are just amateur. After all, if you're already getting great work from somebody else for so cheap, why are you talkin' to me?

 

[JerryPH]

Hmmm... I am bummed that there are not a million replies to this thread.

This happens in near every line of work. There are always people ready to take advantage of the gullible and naiive. I believe that this is why you are not getting the posts like you may have wished. It is sadly... very common.

 

[skieur]

Yes, that is exactly how it is. I remember an organization phoned my agency to ask that I give a presentation in French. They were shocked when they were told that first there was travel/mileage and other expenses to be paid as well as an honorarium based on an amount per hour for the preparation and presentation. They expected just to provide lunch.

skieur

 

[craig]

It is a tough subject to understand. Of course if you are interested in photography after a while your next thought is how can I make a couple of extra dollars doing what I love. More then ever that thought is the wrong idea. If you charge for your work then you will come under the scrutiny of pros in the biz. And you better be on point. If not you are shooting your self in the foot. I do not deny anyone who wants to get into photography. The thing is if you do not know how much to charge starting off then you are probably not ready. Not sure how many people realize that.

Love & Bass

 

[Jus7 A Phas3]

I think pros should get paid more just like a pro basketball player pro photographers are the best of the best they should get paid like that

 

[craig]

I had a non profit wanting a shot for the side of a bus. They figured the publicity and an ad inside of said bus plus a small fee would be payment enough. Long story short I told them that if I shot it I could not let the image go for under 3-5 grand. That is a lot of exposure and I was not going to let it go for cheap. I lost the bid, but was proud that I stuck to my guns. Again what publicity? Not Like someone is going to look at the side of the bus and say "I should hire this dude". Interesting side note; homeboy called every photographer in Jackson and we all came in around the same price. They ended up going with an out of state photographer and the side of the bus looks like poop.

Love & Bass

 

[nossie]

LOL qoute from the film "You can go to the store muddafukka!" LMAO - Reminds me of myself when I start to boil.

 

[ksmattfish]

...the amateurs that just got a new DSLR who can't shoot the broad side of a barn cutting down the people who not only have talent...

If an amateur with a DSLR can cut down the business of an established professional photographer then I have serious misgivings about both the photography and business skills of the established professional. Photography is by far the easiest of the visual arts, at least since Eastman introduced film. HCB called it the "artless art", because he said anyone with an "eye" could do it. This was decades before digital or any auto-features. Even before the introduction of easy to use, idiot proof film (1888) the business was full of hacks. Competent photographic skill is well within the ability of most human beings if they care to learn it.

There are usually advantages to hiring a professional over an amateur, but the client needs to understand and see those advantages. If the demand is as simple as "I want to hire a photographer whose photos I like", then when the pro loses out to the amateur it's because the client wasn't impressed with their portfolio. If the client hires a hack, and is disappointed in the work, then hopefully they'll have learned a greater appreciation for the professional. If the client can't see or understand the advantage of hiring the pro over the amateur that's a failure on the pro's part.

Wisdom from the ages...

"Let me here call attention to one of the most universally popular mistakes that have to do with photography - that of classing supposedly excellent work as professional, and using the term amateur to convey the idea of immature productions and to excuse atrociously poor photographs. As a matter of fact nearly all the greatest work is being, and has always been done, by those who are following photography for the love of it, and not merely for financial reasons. As the name implies, an amateur is one who works for love; and viewed in this light the incorrectness of the popular classification is readily apparent." -Alfred Stieglitz (in 1899).

By the way, Max, I'd love to see your portfolio. When are you going to post that link for us?

 

[Flash Harry]

"If an amateur with a DSLR can cut down the business of an established professional photographer then I have serious misgivings about both the photography and business skills of the established professional."

Clients want it for nothing nowadays, nothing to do with business skills or quality, besides what does the average punter know about photographic quality, they see a shot they like and pick it, the amount of times I've been undecided about leaving a print I thought dodgy in the proofs pack only to find later that it was the biggest seller, this game never ceases to amaze me. H

 

[Alpha]

By the way, Max, I'd love to see your portfolio. When are you going to post that link for us?

What does that have to do with anything? I don't bill myself as a professional. I hardly have time these days to do even serious hobby-work. I suppose I'm not allowed to comment on this subject unless I feel some personal, professional injustice about it? You don't have to be getting undercut in order to understand the situation. All you need is eyes.

And sure, I will let you know when I get around to putting my port online is some vaguely organized fashion.

 

[wildmaven]

What does that have to do with anything? I don't bill myself as a professional.

Heck, I've wanted to see your portfolio, too. It doesn't mean I am saying anything negative to you by asking.