Head Shot

[Irishwhistler]

Head Shot

Aye Mates,
A head shot I captured of my buddy Gary's female yellow Labrador Retriever during a club training session yesterday morning.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[Fujidave]

Lovely head shot Mike.

 

[Irishwhistler]

Lovely head shot Mike.

Thank ye kindly Dave.

Mike

 

[smoke665]

Good looking girl. Have to say I'm not in favor of your buddies choice in collars, I've seen to much abuse with those things. There are far more humane training aids available.

 

[Irishwhistler]

Good looking girl. Have to say I'm not in favor of your buddies choice in collars, I've seen to much abuse with those things. There are far more humane training aids available.

Collars of the training variety come in all varieties as do people and trainers. Training collars are inanimate objects that are only abusive in the wrong hands so let's not jump to irrational conclusions. Gary is a skillful trainer, and is both compassionate and highly Connecticut to his two yellow female Labrador Retrievers as they are to him. The folks in my retriever club would never tolerate the abuse of any dog. I assure you that the collars in the image are not being utilized to abuse this beautiful dog.

HOLDING BLIND TRAINING ~ Here is another image of the same retriever with Gary as he is working with her to remain calm and focused while in the holding blind prior to running a drill. Some dogs are very high drive and need to be worked with slowly and methodically to optimize their focus. Note that the retriever is looking up to Gary as her leader, essentially he is her whole world. Gary as the handler / trainer and his retriever are a solid working team and that does not happen in an abusive relationship. She is focused on him, her body language is not that of a cowering abused K9. Myself and the folks I train with live for our dogs as they do for us. NONE of us would tolerate the abuse of any K9.

Mike

 

[smoke665]

@Irishwhistler didn't mean to imply that there was abuse taking place in this case but I have seen dogs abused by them. I come from the camp that believes if there is truly a connection then collars like this are unnecessary. I had a Brittany that was very bad about pulling when on leash, when she needed correction rigging a half hitch on the lead for a bit was far more effective then a barbaric prong collar.

 

[Irishwhistler]

@Irishwhistler didn't mean to imply that there was abuse taking place in this case but I have seen dogs abused by them. I come from the camp that believes if there is truly a connection then collars like this are unnecessary. I had a Brittany that was very bad about pulling when on leash, when she needed correction rigging a half hitch on the lead for a bit was far more effective then a barbaric prong collar.

Smoke,
Do you consider an e-collar "barbaric", certainly likely number of training devices, they can all be misused and abused. No disrespect intended with regard to your philosophy with regard to training methods. I do not seek to speak for all people using a multitude of various training devices and methods specific to the training of K9's. I personally use both an e-collar, a British slip lead, and a pinch collar doing so responsibly and in no way abusively. I align myself with others that train our K9's to a very high level of performance and we do not achieve those objectives by being abusive to our dogs. I will concur that their are a number of implements that have the potential of being abused in the wrong hands, that does not make them cruel, ineffective, nor of little value when used properly. I find tools used to shape the behavior of K9's without being abusive that will potentially make that K9 more responsive, actually add to the overall safety for K9's so trained.

Mike

 

[smoke665]

Do you consider an e-collar "barbaric", certainly likely

In the hands of the wrong person most certainly. I use an e-collar in the field, for the tone. The shock level is so low that it wouldn't faze Sadie. I know because I tested the level on my own arm. The tone is her signal to stop and look at me. She's trained to both voice and hand signals, but sometimes in the field either the distance or wind noise prevents her from hearing a voice command.

 

[Irishwhistler]

Do you consider an e-collar "barbaric", certainly likely

In the hands of the wrong person most certainly. I use an e-collar in the field, for the tone. The shock level is so low that it wouldn't faze Sadie. I know because I tested the level on my own arm. The tone is her signal to stop and look at me. She's trained to both voice and hand signals, but sometimes in the field either the distance or wind noise prevents her from hearing a voice command.

My exact point made. It is not the tool itself that specifically lends itself toward being abusive, rather, t'is the person using the tool. There are in fact a full spectrum of people out there that own animals some that should, others that should never and are totally underserving of doing so. I in no way advocate abusive training practices. An e-collar in the hands of a knowledgeable trainer is an invaluable tool, in the wrong hands, it certainly could be used to inflict cruelty.

Mike

 

[smoke665]

The thing about e-collars vs prong or choke collars is that you don't have the potential for physical injury to the neck or trachea. I've had dogs get into electric fences with a lot more shock then an e-collar, I've found myself tangled up in them as well. I can attest to the fact that there is no lasting damage.

 

[Photo Lady]

Do you consider an e-collar "barbaric", certainly likely

In the hands of the wrong person most certainly. I use an e-collar in the field, for the tone. The shock level is so low that it wouldn't faze Sadie. I know because I tested the level on my own arm. The tone is her signal to stop and look at me. She's trained to both voice and hand signals, but sometimes in the field either the distance or wind noise prevents her from hearing a voice command.

I agree...
these collars are very useful with a dog that needs them.. it is the "people who abuse" the training methods.. it is suppose to be used gently.. not abusive as well as any other training tool.. it should just let the dog know he is restrained he should not be in any pain at any time..uncomfortable but no pain when he pulls...and it should only be used for big dogs with thick necks and thick hair.. because they are strong and need more restraint with a signal..a gentle tug only will let the dog know he is too walk slower and not to pull.. but it is too bad that most people do not heed this.. therefore it does become a controverse in whether or not to use it.. one thing is certain. the beautiful photo would have been more beautiful with out the pinch collar..

 

[Irishwhistler]

The thing about e-collars vs prong or choke collars is that you don't have the potential for physical injury to the neck or trachea. I've had dogs get into electric fences with a lot more shock then an e-collar, I've found myself tangled up in them as well. I can attest to the fact that there is no lasting damage.

I would disagree. Misused, an e-collar could certainly shut a dog down and create long lasting psychological injury. I would not disagree that there is potential for physical damage to the neck and / or trachea with use of ALL collars. Again, I emphasize that properly used, they are all invaluable tools for specific situations and in the hands of those that are knowledgeable in their application. Any choke or slip lead type configuration can injure a dog's neck and / or trachea.

A hammer is a tool utilized to construct and build things, yet in the wrong hands, it can be a weapon.

Mike

 

[smoke665]

@Photo Lady first off I apologize to Mike for getting off on a tangent from his post, but I agree that the photo would have been even better without the collar shown prominently.

In my lifetime I've raised/trained German Shepards, English Shepards, Doberman, Boxer, Brittany and a couple Yorkies. Never found a need to resort to a pinch collar

 

[Photo Lady]

@Photo Lady first off I apologize to Mike for getting off on a tangent from his post, but I agree that the photo would have been even better without the collar shown prominently.

In my lifetime I've raised/trained German Shepards, English Shepards, Doberman, Boxer, Brittany and a couple Yorkies. Never found a need to resort to a pinch collar

i think if you are a professional trainer you would not need the pinch collar on any dog.. but i do believe if you are new at training.. you do need the help of available tools.. but then this is where the problem comes in.. do you have enough knowledge to use the tools. and are you patient enough not to be abusive with the tool.. thats what i would be concerned about.. and i think most people should opt out of using this.. and seek a professional trainer..oh yes, i am not blaming the photographer one bit.. most people would not know about this collar and all its pros and cons.. he took a gorgeous photo of a beautiful dog..

 

[Irishwhistler]

I agree that the photograph would have looked much better without any collars on the dog. This was a candid taken during training and not a set up portrait. The collars were on the dog for training purposes when I took the shot in this thread and it is obvious that the dog is quite content with her situation.

Mike