HELP - ADVICE/OPINION WANTED

[PixelRabbit]

I swear Steve, if there ever comes a time that I need to be hard nosed and ruthless about something in going to recruit you as an advisor.

Well, sometimes things are pretty damn black and white. A contract, which two parties agree to and sign, is one of those things.

In this case, if the bride-to-be doesn't want photos of her used online, after basically signing a contract which permits it, she needs to be overly accommodating in other areas, and she's not; not at all. Given that, I would lean on the contract that is in effect, and let her deal with her freely-made decision to sign it...

The way you are approaching this is a valid way within the world of business and contracts, you are correct, he has the legal right to keep that money and tell her to go pound salt because she broke the contract and if she would like to discuss it further they can do it in court.

I guess what I don't get is why? It's not like taking this to court will make some major statement that will discourage the next bridezilla from doing this. Will she suddenly see the error in her ways? Will Bill find some vindication in a ruling in his favour and his court fees reimbursed? What about the time and energy he has to invest into this if he goes to court? Is it worth it to take that line?

If you say yes it would be worth it to you to be prepared to take it to court then cool, like I said it is a perfectly valid way to approach this, I mean heck if he did take your line he may get to just keep the money and carry on and not have to go to court, only hope she doesn't give him bad press.

For me it's not a line I would take, I wouldn't invest that amount of energy into what ultimately amounts to keeping a bit of money.

 

[Trever1t]

It's not going to court, it would never make the docket. I really don't care much about the money, just want to be paid for services rendered and move on.

 

[pixmedic]

I swear Steve, if there ever comes a time that I need to be hard nosed and ruthless about something in going to recruit you as an advisor.

Well, sometimes things are pretty damn black and white. A contract, which two parties agree to and sign, is one of those things.

In this case, if the bride-to-be doesn't want photos of her used online, after basically signing a contract which permits it, she needs to be overly accommodating in other areas, and she's not; not at all. Given that, I would lean on the contract that is in effect, and let her deal with her freely-made decision to sign it...

The way you are approaching this is a valid way within the world of business and contracts, you are correct, he has the legal right to keep that money and tell her to go pound salt because she broke the contract and if she would like to discuss it further they can do it in court.

I guess what I don't get is why? It's not like taking this to court will make some major statement that will discourage the next bridezilla from doing this. Will she suddenly see the error in her ways? Will Bill find some vindication in a ruling in his favour and his court fees reimbursed? What about the time and energy he has to invest into this if he goes to court? Is it worth it to take that line?

If you say yes it would be worth it to you to be prepared to take it to court then cool, like I said it is a perfectly valid way to approach this, I mean heck if he did take your line he may get to just keep the money and carry on and not have to go to court, only hope she doesn't give him bad press.

For me it's not a line I would take, I wouldn't invest that amount of energy into what ultimately amounts to keeping a bit of money.

if you look at the first email the bride sent Bill that he posted here, she says, "keep what you think is fair from our payment, already made in full".
Aside from her ridiculous (in my opinion) last minute demands, she obviously knows the contract is valid . I suspect she had someone who knows ( or at least thinks they know) law well enough to write out her demands in a very technical manner, and tell her that Bills contract is solid and she doesn't have any legal grounds to break it without losing her money.

I have no idea what the brides waffling between "meet my demands or your off the wedding" to "I decided not to break the contract" to, "im firing you" is all about.
Bill did say that he had no intention of taking this to court, and that he would refund her money MINUS his fee for their engagement session.
personally, I think this shows Bill being the better person here. very fair indeed. More than fair even. After all her last minute bullying and demands, I would REALLY have to force myself to give her ANY money back at all, and im not 100% sure i actually would refund her a dime.

Kudos to you Bill.

 

[Tee]

You missed out on the physical experience of shooting a wedding which is something that matters more than your website in these early stages. I think you could've compromised a little (respected her wish for no images displayed but maintained everything else on your contract). I get the whole "stick to your principles" thing. It's admirable. But what have you gained from this experience except an unwillingness to compromise with a client you readily admit you enjoy and e-pats on the back for being stubborn? This is a situation in which nobody won, and on Saturday, after the wedding would've been over, you still only have 4 weddings shot.

 

[Trever1t]

Nobody won, yes agreed. 4? Where does that # come from? No, and if I had given in to her last minute whim, what would be next? Experience is great, I always learn with every click. Money is great too. Images are great too. Pick 2 of 3 and I'm happy.

 

[kathyt]

You missed out on the physical experience of shooting a wedding which is something that matters more than your website in these early stages. I think you could've compromised a little (respected her wish for no images displayed but maintained everything else on your contract). I get the whole "stick to your principles" thing. It's admirable. But what have you gained from this experience except an unwillingness to compromise with a client you readily admit you enjoy and e-pats on the back for being stubborn? This is a situation in which nobody won, and on Saturday, after the wedding would've been over, you still only have 4 weddings shot.

I would not want to work with these clients any longer. There is more trouble brewing if he were to shoot this wedding. Would you want to work with these demands? A wedding photographer needs a strong relationship with his bride and groom. Weddings last up to 13 hours for the photographer. That is going to be one long ass day if there is tension and animosity. Since the relationship is already strained then I would run, not walk, to the next assignment and call it a day.

 

[IByte]

It's not going to court, it would never make the docket. I really don't care much about the money, just want to be paid for services rendered and move on.

It must be all of that fresh Northern Cali air and weather Bill. Damn I lost my train of thought...I wanna go back to Napa!!

 

[Tee]

Nobody won, yes agreed. 4? Where does that # come from?

You mentioned earlier that this would be your 5th wedding this season.

 

[Tee]

I would not want to work with these clients any longer. There is more trouble brewing if he were to shoot this wedding. Would you want to work with these demands? A wedding photographer needs a strong relationship with his bride and groom. Weddings last up to 13 hours for the photographer. That is going to be one long ass day if there is tension and animosity. Since the relationship is already strained then I would run, not walk, to the next assignment and call it a day.

Well, naturally it wouldn't be prudent to photograph the wedding now that various emails of demand have taken place. I was merely referring to initial action.

 

[Trever1t]

Initially I took down her images of the E session and offered to sit down with her after the wedding to discuss it all.

 

[IByte]

The offer that she sent earlier, sounded awfully lawyer(ish). I'm guessing she has a friend/relative who's a lawyer and she's pestering them to formulate a response for her.

My impression is that it was written by someone who's not a lawyer who's trying to sound like a lawyer.

I know a few lawyers, and I can't imagine any of them penning tripe like that. "Search engine tricks"? Yeah, no lawyer's gonna' use a term like that...

"Write Like a Lawyer Before Lunch" only $19.95, 1 million copies already sold!!

 

[pixmedic]

Nobody won, yes agreed. 4? Where does that # come from?

You mentioned earlier that this would be your 5th wedding this season.

he said it was his fifth wedding this season. not fifth wedding in his whole career.

 

[IByte]

Conclusion: She cancelled my services.

Relieved and bummed. I mean we had talked so much over the last 9 months. She asked me for recommendations for music, etc. We had a lovely E session. Oh well, it's official.

Lots of beer and good friends can turn that frown upside down, weeeeeekend bender!!!!

 

[pixmedic]

You missed out on the physical experience of shooting a wedding which is something that matters more than your website in these early stages. I think you could've compromised a little (respected her wish for no images displayed but maintained everything else on your contract). I get the whole "stick to your principles" thing. It's admirable. But what have you gained from this experience except an unwillingness to compromise with a client you readily admit you enjoy and e-pats on the back for being stubborn? This is a situation in which nobody won, and on Saturday, after the wedding would've been over, you still only have 4 weddings shot.

I would not want to work with these clients any longer. There is more trouble brewing if he were to shoot this wedding. Would you want to work with these demands? A wedding photographer needs a strong relationship with his bride and groom. Weddings last up to 13 hours for the photographer. That is going to be one long ass day if there is tension and animosity. Since the relationship is already strained then I would run, not walk, to the next assignment and call it a day.

I absolutely agree with Kathy here.
the clients made absolutely unreasonable demands (on threat of firing Bill btw) 4 DAYS before the wedding. Bill made a reasonable effort to compromise with them, to which the clients response was "meet our demands or dont come to the wedding".
sure, bill missed a wedding. there will be other weddings.
what did Bill gain? valuable experience dealing with people like that.
Bill was willing to compromise. he offered them what they wanted, but not at their previously discounted price. they wanted their demands met AND the cheaper price. who was the one not willing to compromise here?
it was not Bill unwilling to compromise. I see no stubbornness on bills part, just an unreasonable client that Bill was much better off NOT dealing with.
I can only imagine what demands COULD have come AFTER Bill had already committed resources to that wedding.

 

[Tee]

he said it was his fifth wedding this season. not fifth wedding in his whole career.

Based on the few wedding images in his portfolio and his need for more portfolio work, I assumed he was still getting his feet wet.

Bill, I apologize for assuming this was only your 5th wedding.