HELP - ADVICE/OPINION WANTED

[Joeywhat]

I'm not in the photography business, but I do own my own business and much of this transfers over.

I find that, although keeping customers happy regardless of who is right is often the best solution, at some point you have to cut your losses and just accept whatever comes. Yes, they may leave poor reviews, however if you have many other happy customers then it shouldn't be much of an issue for future work.

Also, that latest response sounds entirely too complicated to actually work. There was a contract at the beginning, I would stick with that. Deviating from it can have many legal issues, and even outside of that it'll create a ton of headaches.

View this as a learning experience, I've had many of my own that resulted in an unhappy customer. Build upon those lessons and you'll be better prepared in the future. Perhaps making specific points regarding how the photos will be used and whose property they are should be brought up at each contract signing, just to be sure.

I would think that it's fairly common knowledge that when you hire a photographer, that the photos ultimately belong to the photographer, but I guess not. Regardless, I wouldn't give yourself too much of a headache over this sort of thing, chances are it won't be a huge hit on your reputation.

 

[Trever1t]

Name, I am so sorry but I cannot agree to your terms as stated in your previous email unless you want to have me write a new contract and purchase full rights. I am willing to work up a new contract if so desired but unless you are buying all rights from me I cannot agree to your terms.

If you do want to purchase full rights, I will give you all files, never use them and delete all from any of my storage devices - but this comes at a significant additional price.

I am trying to work with you. I honestly do not understand the position you are taking with me. In all my years I've never had anyone ever so adamant about this. I hope you understand that I am operating well within the norm. Look at my website and you can see I have other weddings and Engagement/Bridal sessions images - wasn't that the reason you told me you hired me? I never said anything about you owning my files.

IF I DO NOT HEAR FROM YOU BY 8/15/2013 I WILL HAVE TO ASSUME YOU ARE BREAKING THE CONTRACT AS OF THIS DATE 8/13/2013 and I will not be needed at the wedding per you, as stated in the email received Aug. 13, 2013 at 2:19pm.

I feel very badly that you have taken this stand with me, best of luck to both of you, I wish you the very best,

sincerely,

WSG

that sucks

 

[pixmedic]

for what its worth, me and the wife think you made the right call on this. $5 says they had some friend or acquaintance who thinks they "know the biz" tell them they should be getting full rights to their photos even though you are the one taking them. you know, the "i paid for them, i own them" deal. definitely sucks, but better that you cut your losses now before you get TOO tangled up with these people.
are you going to refund them the full amount?

 

[Trever1t]

I haven't replied with the above message yet. I think I will refund all but the deposit (40%) if this is how it goes. I fail to see her logic, anyone worthwhile is already booked... well she fails to see the importance of a good photographer I suppose.

 

[pixmedic]

I haven't replied with the above message yet. I think I will refund all but the deposit (40%) if this is how it goes. I fail to see her logic, anyone worthwhile is already booked... well she fails to see the importance of a good photographer I suppose.

I think the above message is pretty good. you gave them the option to "purchase" their pictures in their entirety. obviously they understand they are breaking a contract since they mentioned you keeping what you think is fair from their payment. I totally agree with keeping the deposit. I think our contracts call it a "retainer fee" or "date reservation fee" or something to that effect, and not "deposit". I'll have to take a look, i cant remember offhand. the wife handles the paperwork stuff.
I would love to see what the "friend with a camera" produces. thats a hit or miss kind of deal there. (unless your friends with a good photographer)
the could still find someone i guess. they just have to do a quick FB or Craigslist search. im sure it will turn up plenty that have this Saturday open, and more than happy to give them all the files.

 

[Robin_Usagani]

My price is the same for weddings that is totally private or not.

Not helpful to this discussion, another one for future reference perhaps but no help here.

What I am saying is.. if someone asks me to keep it totally private, I just do it. Some people are really private. Or sometimes they were involved with something in past, they just dont want their face plastered all over the internet.

 

[Trever1t]

My price is the same for weddings that is totally private or not.

Not helpful to this discussion, another one for future reference perhaps but no help here.

What I am saying is.. if someone asks me to keep it totally private, I just do it. Some people are really private. Or sometimes they were involved with something in past, they just dont want their face plastered all over the internet.

OK I understand thank you. I wasn't asked.

 

[Dinardy]

I think you have done well and proceeded in this situation to the best of your abilities, politely and adequately.
I suppose working with people like that are one of the downsides to opening a business venture. Some people enjoy privacy
There was no reason to come off blatantly rude (at least in my mind) then again women are special creatures.

Good luck with this. I could imagine it being stressful, its obvious that you care.

 

[orljustin]

exactly what I've done.

To reply to CCericola, I don't shoot too many weddings, this is only my 5th this season (one more next month) and usually my couples are not as attractive, go figure. So yes, this shoot would benefit my port tremendously, not to mention I have been honing my skills so these should be my best examples to date.

I understand that you need to build your portfolio but you can still use them in your portfolio without putting them online. A web portfolio should not be your only means of showing your work.

I wouldn't hire the OP in the first place. I don't understand this need of Photographers to force every client to allow tgem to put their images online. As a customer, I'm not interested in being your free model.

The OP will probably get more negative publicity from a pissed bride, then any positive effect from keeping the images up.

 

[orljustin]

Not helpful to this discussion, another one for future reference perhaps but no help here.

What I am saying is.. if someone asks me to keep it totally private, I just do it. Some people are really private. Or sometimes they were involved with something in past, they just dont want their face plastered all over the internet.

OK I understand thank you. I wasn't asked.

Maybe they didn't know to ask. Just because you have 4 weddings online doesn't mean you didn't shoot 8. Maybe they think your promotional usage is opt-in. I would. I wouldn't expect my commissioned work to be used to promote you.

 

[pixmedic]

What I am saying is.. if someone asks me to keep it totally private, I just do it. Some people are really private. Or sometimes they were involved with something in past, they just dont want their face plastered all over the internet.

OK I understand thank you. I wasn't asked.

Maybe they didn't know to ask. Just because you have 4 weddings online doesn't mean you didn't shoot 8. Maybe they think your promotional usage is opt-in. I would. I wouldn't expect my commissioned work to be used to promote you.

except that it was in the contract that the bride and groom both signed. If they didnt bother to actually read the contract...that's their problem.
I don't think this was a matter of them not understanding. I think this is them changing their minds, or having someone tell them they should have control over photos they are paying for. To try and strongarm the photographer a week before the wedding, when they have had that contract to look at for months now, is ridiculous.
The fact that they looked at other peoples engagements and weddings on his site BEFORE hiring him, should have been a clue that maybe, just maybe, if they dont want their pictures up there, they should probably say something. OR, you know....actually read that piece of paper they signed.

you would be pretty hard pressed i think to find photographers that dont have it in their contract that they retain usage rights for self promotion. unless of course, the client READS the contract, objects to that part, and something gets worked out.

 

[JacaRanda]

There was no 'force' that I can tell. Read and understand the contract before it is signed. Problem solved! Piece of cake!

And what Pix said.

 

[Trever1t]

^^ They've had a physical copy of the contract in their possession for 11 months? Waiting until the last 5 days to totally change my entire contract?

 

[Joeywhat]

What I am saying is.. if someone asks me to keep it totally private, I just do it. Some people are really private. Or sometimes they were involved with something in past, they just dont want their face plastered all over the internet.

OK I understand thank you. I wasn't asked.

Maybe they didn't know to ask. Just because you have 4 weddings online doesn't mean you didn't shoot 8. Maybe they think your promotional usage is opt-in. I would. I wouldn't expect my commissioned work to be used to promote you.

As someone who isn't in the photography industry, and who has never hired a photographer for anything...I still know that it's common for photographers to own the rights to any photos taken. The fact that it's also in writing in the signed contract should really mean that they knew everything before hand...if they didn't read the contract then maybe they'll start reading things they sign from now on.

 

[pixmedic]

Trevor man, I would TOTALLY use ALL of their previous photos that you have on your portfolio blog, website, FB page...everything you can link up on the web. post them HERE and link it on your blog. :mrgreen: