Help me get started.

Dimus · Jul 21, 2011

Hello all, first time posting here. It's quit late so forgive me if what I say doesn't make sense but I can't sleep and this has been on my mind all night. I tend to be rather verbose in my writing which I think often times confuses people when they read what I write and I actually have quite a few questions so I'll try to organize my post so it's more understandable. Also, I apologize in advance if I'm breaking any forum protocols on first posts or advice posts, I know some forums are rather strict about this sort of thing but I haven't seen rules so here I am posting.

Background (you can probably skip this part...unless you really want to read it):

I've always been interested in photography and often times enjoy the process especially if I'm in an enjoyable local. Unfortunately I don't really get out and photograph much but when I do take pictures people tell me they are pretty good. Right now I'm toying with the idea of starting a hobby of photography. I have a lot of questions to gauge whether or not I actually want to follow this line of thought.

Questions:

1. What sort of prospects do I have in selling my photos? I bet you thought my first question would be "what camera should I buy?" and it's actually going to be one of my questions but I thought this question needed to be asked first. I want this hobby to be self-sustaining so there has to be some sort of way to sell what I shoot. I understand there are a number of websites that buy and sell photos. Is this a viable way of selling my photos? If so which companies are the best to use. Keep in mind this though. I have next to no desire to take photographs of people and as I understand it photos with people in it are more desirable (in case you were wondering...the way I see it is if I'm taking pictures of people I'll have to find pretty people and ask them to pose in appealing ways and that's just...not my thing...though admittedly sounds like a good way of meeting women). Essentially my end goal with my photography would be to pay for the camera equipment and possibly one day pay for trips to various locals to take pictures. I in no way intend for this hobby to become my main source of income.

2. What camera should I buy? I told you it was coming. You guys probably get this a lot and I know your first question is probably "how much are you willing to pay?" My gut reaction is 300-400US$ but I suppose I might be convinced to go as high as 500. Your next question is probably "What are you going to use it for?" Like I said earlier, I don't plan on taking portraits or anything...mainly just landscape and architecture...things that generally don't move. Maybe animals as well.

Ok, I probably have more questions but by now I'm really starting to get tired (I'm fairly certain I'm being eaten alive by a mosquito as well)...I probably wont look here again for another 8-10 hours - at which point I'll probably apologize for whatever strange things I've said and ask some more questions that I couldn't remember.

Malone · Jul 21, 2011

First off - TLDR..

What camera should you buy with a budget of $300-400? $500 max? You are looking at used entry level DSLR equipment. Hit up Craigslist, Ebay, and your local Camera shop for used cameras and lenses.

pgriz · Jul 21, 2011

If you were “toying with the idea” of doing painting, or jewelry making, or pottery, or wood-carving, how would you approach it? Would you even consider selling your work if you didn’t have the skills and talent? Probably not. Photography is no different.

Some observations:

Skills beat equipment, pretty much every time.
Timing is the difference between nice and WOW!
Control the light, create the image.

Your budget will allow you to get a nice snapshot camera. Learn to use it. This will allow you to see the skills you need to acquire. Acquire those skills. Now you will know what equipment you need. Join a photo club, enter some contests. See how your stuff does. If everyone OOOHHH and AAAHHS, then you have potential. Otherwise, enjoy a fine hobby.

The real problem is… you don’t know what you don’t know. Maybe you have the talent to produce amazing images without any training or practice. Chances are… probably not. There is a language(heck, many languages and dialects!!!) of visual expression – most have to learn it, and few, very few, become masters of it. The rest of us dabble at it, and from time to time produce pretty good shots, but mostly by luck.

If you are just “toying with the idea of starting a hobby of photography”, then let me encourage you to do it. It can be a very satisfying (although expensive) hobby. A bit like golf – most can hit that ball, but it takes much practice and good equipment to get to the point that you can make some money at it.

AgentDrex · Jul 21, 2011

This brings up a good question. You mention you'd like to be a hobbyist but in #1 you ask about selling photos. Does a hobbyist have as his main goal, a desire to make money? Not in my opinion. A hobby is something to do to keep one's mood elevated positively. But perhaps I am wrong. I usually am. You could always buy a small point-and-shoot to get started. That way if you don't feel like its where your interest lies, you're not down 500 dollars. I started with a Canon Powershot A3000IS and it served me well for 12,000+ photos. At that point I upgraded to my current 1000D. I decided to invest in my future as a hobbyist. I'm not looking at making my money back. The pleasure it has brought me holds no price tag.

Matt24138 · Jul 21, 2011

To give you an idea. I have about 500.00 invested. I found a canon rebel xt (lowest dslr model) in a pawn shop for 100.00 which was a great deal. It had the 18-55 kit lens. I spent 50.00 on memory card. 70.00 on a bag. 50 on a tripod. 30 on a uv filter. I got a 55-250 lens half price at target 150.00 and 25.00 on a remote trigger. If I had not found my camera so cheap I wouldn't have gotten started the average about 300.00 used.

bazooka · Jul 21, 2011

I got my wife's used Xti for $245... with the kit lens it would have been $275. That leaves you money for memory card and gear for what you want to shoot. Just keep a constant eye on craigslist and within a month you'll have seen some stellar deals. However, I think it is very unlikely that you will start out making enough cash to buy what you need. This hobby is expensive. But as you acquire more equipment, it does become easier to get the shots you envision. Many times you'll HAVE to have that wide angle, or you'll HAVE to have that extra light or radio trigger, or that camera function. That's not to say you can't make beautiful things with a beginner kit. A master guitarist can make even a toy guitar make a beautiful melody. But he is forced to operate within it's limits and there are things that he cannot do with it, no matter how skilled he is.

People will pay you for very specific things (large group photos, portraits in a certain room, a certain product shot.... last night I shot a kernel of popcorn on a green screen for example). Often you'll find that if you're tasked with shooting a new genre, you'll need additional equipment in order to do the job BEFORE you get paid. And what you get paid for that one shoot will not cover the cost of what you invested to buy the gear in order to do that shot. However, as you do more gigs that you already have the gear for, that's when you can approach breaking even. But unless you really advertise yourself, it will take a long time to do. And before you start advertising yourself, you have to build experience and skill. If you skip this part, you'll just be another guy with a digital camera offering sub-par product.

subscuck · Jul 21, 2011

There's nothing wrong with making a hobby self sustaining if you can. But be practical and realize that before it can pay for itself, or at least partially, there will be a considerable outlay in $$$ and time. $$$ for equipment that will enable you to be, at the least, competent, and time spent developing all of the required knowledge and skills.

IMO, your budget is unrealistic. Yes, you can find pawn shop bargains, and there's CL and e-bay. However, to outfit yourself with the best used gear you can get, (and let's be honest, for your budget it's used or nothing if you're thinking SLR) you need to extend your budget a couple hundred more. Then you can look at factory refurbs or used gear from reputable dealers like B&H, Adorama or KEH. And you'll be able to get into a prosumer, rather than entry level, body. There's nothing wrong with a camera that's a couple or even a few generations old, but I would feel safer spending my hard earned cash with someone a little more reputable than CL or e-bay.

Lastly, don't put the cart before the horse. If you've no experience with cameras and photography, know nothing about the fundamentals of either, and adding needed accessories will come in dribbles and drabs, you're a loooong way off from making any money at it. Make it an enjoyable hobby/learning experience first, and put thoughts of $$$ on the back burner.

gsgary · Jul 21, 2011

Forget it, go get a job, who's bringing popcorn to the party ?

subscuck · Jul 21, 2011

Well, since you asked nice and all...

:popcorn:

Dimus · Jul 21, 2011

I'm sorry guys. I might not have explained myself very well last night because some of you actually seem to be somewhat offended by what I said. It was pretty late, I'm sorry

The basic point that some of you got was I want a self sustaining hobby, a hobby that pays for itself. I don't want this to be a job and I don't expect it to pay for itself right now. I just want to go out, have some fun, take some pictures, and sell the good ones. I know I'm not a professional and I know I don't have experience but I don't expect to make large amounts of money...I just want to pay for the equipment I buy. The only questions I really have is:

1. Is this self-sustaining hobby theory a sound one? Am I reasonable in expecting that at least some of my photos might be worthy of selling so that eventually, over a year or two, I might see my initial investment paid for?

2. Assuming the answer to the first question is yes where are the best places to sell pictures? I know there are a number of stock photo sites on the internet...are those good?

3. What is a good DSLR and associated equipement a beginner should buy? I'll be willing to increase my budget to 700US$. Now, some of you have mentioned used cameras. Is that wise? Do you guys find that used cameras are reliable? In general I don't like the idea of buying used electronics but if they are reliable I suppose buying used could be a good deal.

Thanks for bearing with me here.

gsgary · Jul 21, 2011

I wasn't offended, it's just that we have read these sort of threads hundreds of times, I don't know prices in the US but in the UK you would not get much for $700

Malone · Jul 21, 2011

Dimus said:
3. What is a good DSLR and associated equipement a beginner should buy? I'll be willing to increase my budget to 700US$. Now, some of you have mentioned used cameras. Is that wise? Do you guys find that used cameras are reliable? In general I don't like the idea of buying used electronics but if they are reliable I suppose buying used could be a good deal.

Canon and Nikon (just as an example since they are the most popular) both have factory refurbished cameras available. These, IMO, are just as good, if not better than new. They have been inspected by hand inside and out, repaired, and any cosmetic blemishes restored. Typically, they come with a warranty also. This may be an option if you aren't comfortable with "used" cameras from ebay or CL.

KmH · Jul 21, 2011

Dimus said:
The only questions I really have is:

1. Is this self-sustaining hobby theory a sound one?

Not really.

To sell your photos you still have to market and promote them. That takes both money and time.

If you display your photos online, people can just copy them (right click or screen shot) instead of buying them from you. So, how do you sell them if you don't put them online?

One way is to sell, on consignment, matted and bagged, or framed prints through a number of art galleries in your region. In other words you pay to have the prints made, mat and bag the prints, and let the gallery sell the framing.

About 85% of the photographs that sell have people in them, and the vast majority of those photos are bought by the people in the photo. That is what retail photography is all about. So, the other 15% of the photos that sell are all the landscape, nature, car, flowers, architecture, candids, fine art, abstract, etc photos that so many tens of thousands of other amateur photographers hope to sell to help pay for their hobby. Just look through SmugMug, Flickr, Zenfolio, or any of several other photo sharing/selling websites to see what you will be competing with.

Photos that have people in them that are used for commercial purposes usually need to be accompanied by written permission from the people in the photos for their likeness to be used for a commercial purpose (a model release).

Dimus · Jul 21, 2011

So websites that buy and sell stock photos aren't viable?

The_Traveler · Jul 21, 2011

Dimus said:
So websites that buy and sell stock photos aren't viable?

There are thousands of websites and hundreds of thousands of pictures done by people with immense experience and skill and no small degree of talent.

The chances of your hobby being self-supporting are very small and only if you sacrifice taking the pictures you want to take for the pictures that people want to buy.

Forget it; take up auto mechanics as a hobby.