Help Me Understand

[Fleetwood271]

Shot an event last week, and almost all images came out blurry.
D90 with 285HV. Setting was Aperture Priority.
Checking images on camera, they appeared to be fine, but once on computer, almost all are trash.

Problem seemed to be low light in the room. I just checked the data on some of the images and it seems that even though I was using a 2.8 lens, and ISO was on auto, the light was so low that the camera set the shutter speed at 1/10 and 1/13 on most shots.

What should I have done in these conditions?
Aperture was at max of 2.8.
ISO was at 3200.
Was using external, on camera, flash. However, it wasn't TTL. The data on the shots says no flash, but the flash went off on every single shot. But since it wasn't TTL, was that the reason it says no flash?

If I'd had TTL flash, would that have helped?

What settings should I have used?

I'd appreciate your help.

Thanks!

 

[tirediron]

Was the flash set to full power? It sounds like it was set for a fairly low output. Pls post a couple of example images.

Yes, the reason you're getting a 'No flash' in the EXIF data is because this flash doesn't 'talk' to your camera.

 

[Fleetwood271]

The first image was shot a full power, but when I looked at it on the camera, it was clear that it was way over exposed. I lowered the flash power setting down to about 1/16. But none of the shots are dark. It is just that they all have some blur. People were standing around talking, as I was shooting.
As to posting some of the pix, some of these people would not want to be on the net. However, I cropped a couple down so you can see what I am talking about.

 

[tirediron]

Sorry, I mis-read your OP. The motion blur is a result of your low shutter speed. Remember that shutter speed affects ambient light, aperture affects the flash. Increase your shutter speed to 1/125 and try again. When shooting with a manual flash, you're best to shoot with the camera in manual as well.

 

[Fleetwood271]

Sorry, I mis-read your OP. The motion blur is a result of your low shutter speed. Remember that shutter speed affects ambient light, aperture affects the flash. Increase your shutter speed to 1/125 and try again. When shooting with a manual flash, you're best to shoot with the camera in manual as well.

If I'd been using a TTL flash, would camera have automatically set shutter speed higher, or would I still have needed to switch to manual and increase it?

 

[bigtwinky]

Your problem was shooting Aperture priority me thinks.

You set your aperture, and because of the low light condition, you got a slow shutter speed. All a TTL flash would do (and someoen correct me if I am wrong) is have a higher flash power.

You should be shooting in manual.

Your problem would be that if you were in manual, you'd have to watch not to have too fast a shutter speed else your background will be black.

When shooting flash in manual remember that the aperture controls the subject's exposure and the shutter controls the ambiant light

 

[Fleetwood271]

Your problem was shooting Aperture priority me thinks.

You set your aperture, and because of the low light condition, you got a slow shutter speed. All a TTL flash would do (and someoen correct me if I am wrong) is have a higher flash power.

You should be shooting in manual.

Your problem would be that if you were in manual, you'd have to watch not to have too fast a shutter speed else your background will be black.

When shooting flash in manual remember that the aperture controls the subject's exposure and the shutter controls the ambiant light

There was one shot early in the night where I saw the blur on the camera, but when I changed to manual and increased shutter speed, the next image was very dark. So, I went back to Aperture.
You are probably right about TTL. Would have probably only increased the flash output.

So, what is the solution. Is it just trial and error, when walking into a room like this? Switch to manual and take a few to see what the images look like?

I could've brought an off camera flash (strobes) and umbrellas, but this was a large room, probably 50 X 100 or so, with at least 12ft ceilings. Lights were on dimmer, and as everyone sat to eat, the lights were dimmed, and stayed that way the rest of the night. Would that have helped?

 

[tirediron]

You need to understand Manual Flash Metering

 

[FattyMcJ]

I see several issues with these photos.

Problem #1, as Bigtwinky mentioned is using Av mode. Shoot manual, keep the shutter speed low enough to allow ambient into the exposure but high enough to eliminate camera shake. 1/60th ideally, but you can drag the shutter a bit if you're needing/wanting more ambient..as low as 1/30th if you're rock steady.

Problem #2 is direct flash. The 285HV can be used to "bounce" light....off a wall or the ceiling. It will also help to spread the light and give an overall better exposure. This would have especially helped in photo #1.

It looks as if you're in a room with a decently high ceiling (10' ish?) so up the power on the flash a bit, point it straight up, and shoot. You'll notice a much more even/pleasing light. I've used an on-camera flash to bounce off a gym ceiling before and even with 20'+ tall ceilings, it works quite well. Just need to crank up the power a wee bit.

Also, this will help with your white balance issue. Light, when "bounced" will take on the color tone of whatever it hits. Looks like tungsten light in that room, with off white walls and I'm assuming that fugly cheap ceiling tile that's off-white as well...bounce the flash off those, it'll more closely match for WB purposes.

Just a few tips, it's not an exact science, you just have to learn from experience. At least you didn't use the built-in flash

 

[Fleetwood271]

I see several issues with these photos.

Problem #1, as Bigtwinky mentioned is using Av mode. Shoot manual, keep the shutter speed low enough to allow ambient into the exposure but high enough to eliminate camera shake. 1/60th ideally, but you can drag the shutter a bit if you're needing/wanting more ambient..as low as 1/30th if you're rock steady.

Problem #2 is direct flash. The 285HV can be used to "bounce" light....off a wall or the ceiling. It will also help to spread the light and give an overall better exposure. This would have especially helped in photo #1.

It looks as if you're in a room with a decently high ceiling (10' ish?) so up the power on the flash a bit, point it straight up, and shoot. You'll notice a much more even/pleasing light. I've used an on-camera flash to bounce off a gym ceiling before and even with 20'+ tall ceilings, it works quite well. Just need to crank up the power a wee bit.

Also, this will help with your white balance issue. Light, when "bounced" will take on the color tone of whatever it hits. Looks like tungsten light in that room, with off white walls and I'm assuming that fugly cheap ceiling tile that's off-white as well...bounce the flash off those, it'll more closely match for WB purposes.

Just a few tips, it's not an exact science, you just have to learn from experience. At least you didn't use the built-in flash

Thanks for the tips.
I did not use direct flash in any of these shots. All were bounced off the ceiling. The 285 was not at 90º, but at the next setting right below being directly vertical.
As far the white balance, I wasn't really concerned with it since I had the camera set for Basic JPEG and for RAW. So I was getting two images with each exposure. However, better to get it right the first time, instead of relying on PP.
Yep, you're right on about those ceiling tiles.

Thanks!

 

[FattyMcJ]

Thanks for the tips.
I did not use direct flash in any of these shots. All were bounced off the ceiling. The 285 was not at 90º, but at the next setting right below being directly vertical.
As far the white balance, I wasn't really concerned with it since I had the camera set for Basic JPEG and for RAW. So I was getting two images with each exposure. However, better to get it right the first time, instead of relying on PP.
Yep, you're right on about those ceiling tiles.

Thanks!

I swear, those shadows don't look like bounced shadows...those look like direct flash shadows.

Either way, hopefully next time you get better results Good luck :thumbup:

 

[o hey tyler]

Your problem was shooting Aperture priority me thinks.

You set your aperture, and because of the low light condition, you got a slow shutter speed. All a TTL flash would do (and someoen correct me if I am wrong) is have a higher flash power.

You should be shooting in manual.

Your problem would be that if you were in manual, you'd have to watch not to have too fast a shutter speed else your background will be black.

When shooting flash in manual remember that the aperture controls the subject's exposure and the shutter controls the ambiant light

I believe with a TTL flash, that the output of the flash would vary depending on the meter. I never use my flash in Av mode on my camera, so I can't really say definitively. However, if you have a TTL flash with your camera set to f/2.8 @1/100s, the flash will adjust output to expose properly at f/2.8. If I'm understanding your second line correctly, Twinky.

 

[Derrel]

Ooooops., it happened again!!! Shooting flash in Aperture Priority mode indoors will yield slow shutter speeds, which lead to a nice blurry ghost image. The flash burst will give a nice crisp, flash-illuminated image. Put the two images together, and you have total garbage in most instances.

There would have been no problems if you had simply shot in manual mode, and set the shutter speed to something like 1/160 second. On every exposure.

 

[Drake]

I have no idea if there's a similar setting in your Nikon, but in my Rebel there's a custom function to lock the shutter speed at sync speed (1/200) every time flash is used in Aperture priority. But personally I also shoot in M mode when using flash, just to slow down the shutter a little bit, usually to something like 1/60. And so I am wondering, what's the shutter speed you usually shoot flash in. How slow can you get in order to get some light in the background before the foreground picks too much ambient light and starts having unnatural tones. I've seen many pros shooting at 1/125. Is it a good, pretty universal compromise, or there is just no such thing?

 

[FattyMcJ]

And so I am wondering, what's the shutter speed you usually shoot flash in. How slow can you get in order to get some light in the background before the foreground picks too much ambient light and starts having unnatural tones. I've seen many pros shooting at 1/125. Is it a good, pretty universal compromise, or there is just no such thing?

It's a case by case basis really. The amount of ambient you want in the exposure will be determined by...you.

1/125th is the max sync speed at which I can shoot Alien Bee 1600's with Poverty Wizards...which subsequently kills off ambient light in the studio. Why? Because the ambient is very dim to begin with and keeping the strobe at a relatively low power allows me to keep the shallow DoF I like in my portraits while still being able to have the "pure" light I like.

Using my SB-600's is a whole different story since I can use high speed sync (FP mode...i-TTL/Nikon CLS) and get a fast enough shutter speed to really control the ambient outdoors in mid daylight. Or keep the 1/250th max sync speed with the poverty wizards and do it the fully manual "Strobist" way.

So you can see, there's a TON of variables to consider and while there ARE "Rules of Thumb" there is no "right" or "wrong" way, as long as you get the final image that you wanted.