Help! Upset clients say they got jipped!

[The_Traveler]

HONEST RESPONSE BELOW so don't read if your feeling get hurt.

These people love their photos as has everyone else (about ten paid sessions). This is the first time this happened to me. Very discouraging but I see your point. I will not give up and just do my best to please these people.

That's because the average person don't really know anything.
And more knowledgable people will look at your portfolio and see the mediocre edits and not be your client.

IMO, every one of these pictures shown above has defects that should be corrected.

At this size, it's hard to see well but none of these look sharp.
#1, besides being OOF, has blanched spots on cheeks and forehead. There is huge ugly vignette when the photo should have been cropped and only slightly vignetted.
#2 The people are on one side, his face is hidden. Lots of empty space with no artistic reason.
#3 ditto

You wouldn't buy a piano and then in 2-3 months expect to be able to play at someone's wedding.
Photography is the same way; it takes knowledge, practice, skills and talent.
A smart camera does a lot but you are sabotaging the camera.

 

[Esperanza86]

HONEST RESPONSE BELOW so don't read if your feeling get hurt.




My feelings are far from being hurt by you. I take the critisicm and roll with it. I am pretty new at photography and have read a handful of books about it. Like I said, I am still learning as you know there is a lot to learn. I appreciate you looking at my photos and giving your advice and opinions.
As far as my shooting style- I was using the rule of thirds for the last one. He was whispering something to his girlfriend and I caught a real moment of them being together. The second one with no artistic reason was when we were all joking and they were laughing together. I love real connections and moments. This is not all of the "poses". There are more where they are both showing their faces. As far as my editing, I know I need help. I am not charging fees anymore at this point and just going to shoot for experience. Until I feel confident and can get my camera down. Thank You again everyone! We all start somewhere and I am in the first steps. I do have a question about your reason for little vignette. What is your reason? I am wanting to know. I love the look of a larger vignette but would love to know why you don't.

These people love their photos as has everyone else (about ten paid sessions). This is the first time this happened to me. Very discouraging but I see your point. I will not give up and just do my best to please these people.

That's because the average person don't really know anything.
And more knowledgable people will look at your portfolio and see the mediocre edits and not be your client.

IMO, every one of these pictures shown above has defects that should be corrected.

At this size, it's hard to see well but none of these look sharp.
#1, besides being OOF, has blanched spots on cheeks and forehead. There is huge ugly vignette when the photo should have been cropped and only slightly vignetted.
#2 The people are on one side, his face is hidden. Lots of empty space with no artistic reason.
#3 ditto

You wouldn't buy a piano and then in 2-3 months expect to be able to play at someone's wedding.
Photography is the same way; it takes knowledge, practice, skills and talent.
A smart camera does a lot but you are sabotaging the camera.

 

[Derrel]

I gotta hand it to you Esperanza86, you seem to have thick skin and you can handle criticism without resorting to insulting replies, so you've got a good attitude. Your replies and responses in this thread show a pretty good character and some mental toughness. You seem to acknowledge that there is still plenty to learn, and that you have a ways to go, and all of the aforementioned qualities reflect positively on you. You demonstrate qualities that are often lacking in today's world.

 

[Esperanza86]

I gotta hand it to you Esperanza86, you seem to have thick skin and you can handle criticism without resorting to insulting replies, so you've got a good attitude. Your replies and responses in this thread show a pretty good character and some mental toughness. You seem to acknowledge that there is still plenty to learn, and that you have a ways to go, and all of the aforementioned qualities reflect positively on you. You demonstrate qualities that are often lacking in today's world.

Thank You very much! I didn't come here thinking I was the best. I came here knowing I will never be. No one will. I know there is always someone better than I and everyone here. I know at one time everyone here was lost and didn't know much about photography. It is a journey, and a lifelong learning experience. As far as my upset clients, I am refunding them for the session. I am excited about learning and improving without having money involved now. I know when to take something as an opinions and as an educated response. The information here is amazing. There are so many resources here from every person. It is wonderful. I take the negative energy and make it positive. You can always view something negatively, and you can always view something positively. How you view things in life say a lot about you. It will show in your work and people see that.

 

[Esperanza86]

Btw Derrel- I have noticed your responses as well - the same can be said about you! You have a way with words to inform without belittling. Shows that you are confident in your knowledge and have compassion. I would love to see your work! Do you have a fan page or website?

 

[Derrel]

Thanks. I recently let my long-time pBase site lapse...I'll be moving my stuff elsewhere within a few months.

 

[Esperanza86]

^^ what they said

I couldn't get past the your "computer is broken" and yet you are posting images on a website. And the first photo has too shallow a Depth of Field (Aperture) and wrong focusing point so the people's faces are out of focus.

and the "no" contract thing ... that's the reason people use contracts.

As mentioned, you either make the customer happy as much as you can or stand pat. That's about the only 2 options you have ... after you fix your computer of course.

btw, your "softness of skin" (in another thread) is actually out of focus skin.

I have an Iphone that has photoshop adobe app and photoshop express. My photos from my computer and phone sync with eachother. These are apps so they are much more limited in options for editing. That is the explanation for that confusion. I am learning and I know my fstop was low. I shot at 1.8 but I am having problems focusing. I need to learn how to do that. I did not have a contract because I am very new and now know why that is very important. Thank you for your tips! About my customers- I am refunding them.

 

[Esperanza86]

I'm going to be a little more direct: Refund the clients their money, apologize, and give them whatever usable files you may have. Normally I would suggest you offer a re-shoot, but in this case I'm not sure there is any point. You need to take a pause from the business and learn more about photography and a LOT more about business. WHY are they only getting files that will print to 4x6? I could print decent 8x10s from my very first 2.something Mp digital body.... WHY are you allowing the customer to print the files? That's a HUGE amount of money you're leaving on the table...

I too would be VERY unhappy with a product like this.

In another message she said she could print 8x10. I am refunding them because it is the right thing to do. I have printed photos for other people I have taken photos of through mpix.com and they looked good to me- an average eye (keep in mind I am still learning a lot about technical things). I print my own photos through mpix from the same camera. I am not really sure what is going on there? As far as "business" I am not doing that anymore. I am halting fees and working on learning and practice. I just need to learn, keep reading, and practice. Thank You for taking time to help!

 

[astroNikon]

I'm going to be a little more direct: Refund the clients their money, apologize, and give them whatever usable files you may have. Normally I would suggest you offer a re-shoot, but in this case I'm not sure there is any point. You need to take a pause from the business and learn more about photography and a LOT more about business. WHY are they only getting files that will print to 4x6? I could print decent 8x10s from my very first 2.something Mp digital body.... WHY are you allowing the customer to print the files? That's a HUGE amount of money you're leaving on the table...

I too would be VERY unhappy with a product like this.

In another message she said she could print 8x10. I am refunding them because it is the right thing to do. I have printed photos for other people I have taken photos of through mpix.com and they looked good to me- an average eye (keep in mind I am still learning a lot about technical things). I print my own photos through mpix from the same camera. I am not really sure what is going on there? As far as "business" I am not doing that anymore. I am halting fees and working on learning and practice. I just need to learn, keep reading, and practice. Thank You for taking time to help!

I was helping another photographer who was trying to print 8x10s at Walmart but was unable too. The website didn't allow it.
Essentially, in this problem, The crop of the photo would not allow it to be resized to print at 8x10 and include all the people. It was longer than it was tall for that size. It was printed at 16x10 though which is more panoramic.

So maybe the website only allows certain sizes based on the original size.
I showed the photographer in Lightroom the various size "boxes" at 3x5, 8x10 16x10 and I think a few others for them to understand the shape of the photo just can't be made into any size without distorting the photo or unwanted crops.

 

[Esperanza86]

I'm going to be a little more direct: Refund the clients their money, apologize, and give them whatever usable files you may have. Normally I would suggest you offer a re-shoot, but in this case I'm not sure there is any point. You need to take a pause from the business and learn more about photography and a LOT more about business. WHY are they only getting files that will print to 4x6? I could print decent 8x10s from my very first 2.something Mp digital body.... WHY are you allowing the customer to print the files? That's a HUGE amount of money you're leaving on the table...

I too would be VERY unhappy with a product like this.

In another message she said she could print 8x10. I am refunding them because it is the right thing to do. I have printed photos for other people I have taken photos of through mpix.com and they looked good to me- an average eye (keep in mind I am still learning a lot about technical things). I print my own photos through mpix from the same camera. I am not really sure what is going on there? As far as "business" I am not doing that anymore. I am halting fees and working on learning and practice. I just need to learn, keep reading, and practice. Thank You for taking time to help!

I was helping another photographer who was trying to print 8x10s at Walmart but was unable too. The website didn't allow it.
Essentially, in this problem, The crop of the photo would not allow it to be resized to print at 8x10 and include all the people. It was longer than it was tall for that size. It was printed at 16x10 though which is more panoramic.

So maybe the website only allows certain sizes based on the original size.
I showed the photographer in Lightroom the various size "boxes" at 3x5, 8x10 16x10 and I think a few others for them to understand the shape of the photo just can't be made into any size without distorting the photo or unwanted crops.

Whoa! That makes sense. I wonder if that is what is wrong concerning ability to print. Either way she will be refunded. I just want her to be happy. Sadly, At this point I am not able to help.

 

[Esperanza86]

As far as my focusing, just an honest piece of information. I know how to focus with my shutter. I am thinking I am either not understanding my focus settings in my camera or I am getting too hurried and excited that I am not paying attention to my focal point. It shows where it is focusing on my camera as a little red box but I think at points I get so caught up in everything else I lose "focus". It is a lot of multitasking. I am going to another thread to find help and tips on that now lol.

 

[astroNikon]

As far as my focusing, just an honest piece of information. I know how to focus with my shutter. I am thinking I am either not understanding my focus settings in my camera or I am getting too hurried and excited that I am not paying attention to my focal point. It shows where it is focusing on my camera as a little red box but I think at points I get so caught up in everything else I lose "focus". It is a lot of multitasking. I am going to another thread to find help and tips on that now lol.

That little red dot doesn't tell you if it is in (at least with my camera)
Single Focus Point
Dynamic 9
Dynamic 11, etc as the camera is going to select the most contrasty area starting at that red dot/box.

If you have it in Single Focus Point then you know exactly where it is focusing.
For Nikon that would he AFS-S focus mode (or AFC-S for continuous refocusing, single focus point).

 

[Esperanza86]

Oh my goodness I needed this. Thank You so so much! Correct me if I am wrong but continuous is for moving subjects? Like my two year old son? When you are working with adults who move less is it better to switch out of continuous? I hope this can help me a bit in focusing. Can you tell me where to post threads about metering /camera topics? I am new here and already had a message about being in the correct forum.

 

[astroNikon]

Oh my goodness I needed this. Thank You so so much! Correct me if I am wrong but continuous is for moving subjects? Like my two year old son? When you are working with adults who move less is it better to switch out of continuous? I hope this can help me a bit in focusing. Can you tell me where to post threads about metering /camera topics? I am new here and already had a message about being in the correct forum.

I'm not a pro, but
I use AFC (Auto Focus Continuous Servo mode) for moving subjects - sports, outside kids, etc.

AFS Auto Focus Single (single Servo mode) for portraiture etc. And I have Shutter above 1/125

Then the AF Area Mode can be, as an example
(1) Single Point AF - great for if you want to focus on one particular spot such as the eye
(2) Dynamic Area AF - 9 pt, 21 pt, 39 pt, 51 pt as examples, when you let the camera select the best spot. Good for moving subject
(3) 3D-tracking, good for subjects moving across the view
(4) Auto Area AF - you let the camera decide what to do.

So you could have AFS-Dynamic 51 but I think it only shows the middle red dot when you look through the viewfinder.

In the viewfinder or LCD panel it should be specific which exact mode you are in.

What kind of camera do you have ?
Your manual should go over this in great detail.

 

[tirediron]

As far as my focusing, just an honest piece of information. I know how to focus with my shutter. I am thinking I am either not understanding my focus settings in my camera or I am getting too hurried and excited that I am not paying attention to my focal point. It shows where it is focusing on my camera as a little red box but I think at points I get so caught up in everything else I lose "focus". It is a lot of multitasking. I am going to another thread to find help and tips on that now lol.

The bolded points above are key. No matter how much photographic knowledge you have your fingertips when you're sitting at home on your couch, it's of no use if it all disapears when you are under pressure. What you need to work on is slowing down and making sure you're getting it right. Challenge yourself by using friends and family as guinea pigs and creating stressful circumstances. Give yourself two minutes (literally) to get a good headshot; five minutes to pose & shoot a family of five.... that sort of thing.