I know I'm new to TPF and all, but....

[Noxire]

"Buy a Camera and your a photographer....
...Buy a guitar and you're a guy who owns a guitar"

The problem is:
If you buy another instrument w/o knowing anything about it, you cant produce **** w/ it. But when you buy a camera you can produce something right away (as long you manage to find the shutter-button, and get the lens-cap off)

 

[Vicelord John]

Ding ding ding

 

[c.cloudwalker]

The internet and digital technology makes it easy for one to "appear" to be a "pro" photographer, until they have to create and PP their own shots.

Just go get some cool digital equipment, look like you know what you are doing, and "fake it till you make it" So what if you overcharge and rip off a few customers along the way because you don't really know what the frick you are doing.

Problem is, sometimes, that puts serious photographers in an undeserved bad light... This is EEAASSSYYY, you tell us.

Even learning film photography was never an overnight process, really should be more of a life-long one, we never stop learning, at least I haven't, but I've only been shooting for 40 years. I don't know it all, and I know that I don't know it all. Know that for sure!

There is math, physics, some knowledge of mechanics, and knowledge of computer hardware and software involved in digital photography, as well as adding chemistry to film photography if you do any of your own processing.

In the digital world one can create an acceptable photo, but many of them just look like snapshots or amateurish, but the noobie doesn't know, or want to admit that.

Look how many shots asking for C&C are way too dark, the picturetaker didn't even know enough to use a flash.

A good photographer can create a nice image with a Kodak Brownie Box camera, it isn't just the equipment that makes a good photographer. It is that acquired knowledge that you have to do for yourself.

There is NOTHING AT ALL wrong with someone coming to TPF and seriously wanting to learn and improve, but like mentioned above many just want fast answers, they want the short cuts, and want someone else to google for them. You can usually tell who wants to be spoon fed. Sorry if it irritates some of us, but can't you see why?

Another question that irks me is "Where can I buy (whatever) for cheap?" You get what you pay for, or you pay for what you get. Even though the common answer over and over and over and over again as to where to buy online is Adorama, B&H, or KEH, they ignore and keep asking. They don't read that, they just ask without searching.

So they take a few shots that look good to them, don't ever read the rules, and post 30 slow loading snapshots for C&C. Or they ask for C&C, and get defensive when someone gives it to them.

"I got a photo gig tomorrow, a wedding, so do I need lighting, and what kind? Will my kit lens work?" Someone who has a real passion for photography wouldn't normally take these kinds of short cuts in the film world, but they sure do now...

I have mentioned this before, about actually seeing a guy doing an event for pay, supposedly he was a pro. He had expensive Nikon equipment, two upscale bodies, everything I saw was 2.8 lenses. There was a belt around his waist, with all the lenses held to the belt by those corded lenscap keepers attached to the lens caps, and the other end of the cords to his belt with clips. Lenses were dangling and banging together all around him. I mentioned it, he said it was a fast way for him to do his lens changes.

I asked him how long he had been into photography, he told me two weeks. He had been signed up for a photo class, and when he found out how much was involved in the class, decided that he could teach himself faster.

So, once you get your equipment, go through a learning curve, while upgrading your equipment to pro quality gear...

Then, for whatever percentage of being a pro photographer is time and effort and blood and sweat and tears to learn your craft, there is another huge side - the business part of being a professional photographer and running a successful business.

Happy shooting!

I agree totally and if it makes me look arrogant, so be it.

Same thing happened in graphic design with computers. Everybody and their brother became a graphic designer because they had a computer and some software. I helped a friend who had started a print shop with the graphic design end of the business and it was pretty funny sometimes. I don't know how some of those guys explained to their clients that their beautiful designs could not be printed without selling the house...

 

[TommyF]

Photography is big business and in this struggling economy where people are having difficulty finding standardized employment they are turning to trying their hands at self employment. As it is right now photography is amung the cheapest self employment possibilities. People are under the impression that all they need is a camera to make money so they get them selves a camera and try only to find out it takes more than a camera.


Let them try and fall on their faces as far as I am concerned.

As a photographer, why wouldnt you be more encouraging towards people that want to express themselves with a camera. Let me give you an example of what you sound like:

I am Greek-American and speak the Greek language. You are not Greek and you are a student in college taking a course on speaking Greek. I hope that you fail, because you know nothing about Greek, Greece, the history, or the culture.

Wow I kind of sound like an A-hole dont I?

Your analogy would be more accurate if the student taking a college course on speaking Greek decides to moonlight as a Greek translator, charging a ton of money even though he doesn't know what he's doing, and botches the translations of sensitive documents, giving all Greeks a bad name.

OK, you make a valid point. Im just trying to say that you guys that have way more experience should be more encouraging instead of saying, "Wow, yer an idiot. Go kill yourself for asking that dumb question." I myself am reading Understanding Exposure and love it. But I dont want to just have a pic come out with the correct exposure, I want it to look more expressive and "artsy" than something I could have done with my Canon Powershot SX120 IS P&S camera. You know what I mean. This post almost made me feel like if I ask a question about what shutter speed and aperature to use to get a certain look on a photograph that I should be drawn and quartered. I know that isnt the general consensus of most people on this forum, but if it irks some that bad then they shouldnt peruse the beginners forum in my humble opinion. Im new and not trying to bash anyone, I just want to be a better photographer for my own satisfaction. Anyway, thanks for your time and please have a wonderful Christmas. May everyone's family truly be blessed with happiness and UNDERSTANDING this year.:hug:: :hugs:

 

[Battou]

As a photographer, why wouldnt you be more encouraging towards people that want to express themselves with a camera. Let me give you an example of what you sound like:

I am Greek-American and speak the Greek language. You are not Greek and you are a student in college taking a course on speaking Greek. I hope that you fail, because you know nothing about Greek, Greece, the history, or the culture.

Wow I kind of sound like an A-hole dont I?

Your analogy would be more accurate if the student taking a college course on speaking Greek decides to moonlight as a Greek translator, charging a ton of money even though he doesn't know what he's doing, and botches the translations of sensitive documents, giving all Greeks a bad name.

OK, you make a valid point. Im just trying to say that you guys that have way more experience should be more encouraging instead of saying, "Wow, yer an idiot. Go kill yourself for asking that dumb question." I myself am reading Understanding Exposure and love it. But I dont want to just have a pic come out with the correct exposure, I want it to look more expressive and "artsy" than something I could have done with my Canon Powershot SX120 IS P&S camera. You know what I mean. This post almost made me feel like if I ask a question about what shutter speed and aperature to use to get a certain look on a photograph that I should be drawn and quartered. I know that isnt the general consensus of most people on this forum, but if it irks some that bad then they shouldnt peruse the beginners forum in my humble opinion. Im new and not trying to bash anyone, I just want to be a better photographer for my own satisfaction. Anyway, thanks for your time and please have a wonderful Christmas. May everyone's family truly be blessed with happiness and UNDERSTANDING this year.:hug:: :hugs:

There in lies the difference, you are asking for your own satisfaction when an abnormally large number of people are asking for the satisfaction of others they wish to make clients out of. Now, just a small peice of advice, if you do feel the need to post a question that you would think may come off as ignorant, just take your time and make it clear what it is you are tyring to achieve, show people what you have and explain what you want it to look like. Yes, not all photos require perfect exposure or even the same metering and by all means if you need some advice on how to achieve a particular look, ask. Lets say you are looking to achieve something like this or this simply looking at your meter and doing what it tells you is not going to work and well I don't think any one here expects a beginner to know that.


Now the first portion of the original post tripped a pet peeve of a lot of people, the second part is common stuff, happens everywhere on the internet. That's why I didn't say anything about it, people asking simple questions is going to happen, to put it bluntly a lot of the questions asked are not as simple as we make them out to be simply because we know them. Did you know that when I came here I had a good ten years of photography under my belt as well as photography schooling, but yet did not know what RAW was. I had no clue...I could not tell you the difference between a CCD and a CMOS censor but there are members here who could call me an idiot do a three page essay on the differences.

 

[TommyF]

Battou, that was by far the coolest picture of a cat that I have ever seen. I hope to one day shoot stuff like that.

 

[Wolverinepwnes]

I've noticed an unusual large number of posts from newbies that either go one of two ways:

(1) "I just bought a brand new 7D with a kit lens, so now i can be a professional photographer and charge people money. I just booked a wedding for this weekend. Can someone tell me how to get the lens cap off?"

or,

(2) "What does JPEG mean?" or any other simple question that could be answered with either a forum or a google search.

Is this pretty much the gist of the new people on this forum? How do you guys who have been here for so long have patience? For those who do photography full time, doesn't it piss you off a bit that so many people think they can buy an expensive camera and bam, they're automatically at your level?

You guys are awfully nice to these types of posters. Just sayin'....

Happy holidays. :mrgreen:

Its called being helpfull and teaching what you've learned to those who are learning!!! try it sometimes

 

[jnm]

on the topic of client expectations, there are still a LOT of people out there that think anything that looks different than a point and shoot is just fantastic. i've seen 'pro' photos that people have gotten done and some are wretched. one in particular was shot all with a wide angle lens and the distortion of their body parts is ridiculous, but they didnt seem to notice and thought they were awesome.

another had some of their newborn done and what they got was a series of 5 or 6 different shots, each with about 20 images. it was like the person just put the camera on continuous shooting and gave them the pics right out of the camera. the white balance is different between the sets even. but, they love them.

a 3rd girl is getting married in august and said she 'just needs someone that can use a fancy camera'.

most people just don't know any better and everyone in here probably knows people like that. what i see as the discussion to be had around this is when does it become taking advantage of people that don't know any better. if they are happy is that all that matters? i dont know and i dont know if there is one answer, i think it all depends.

 

[Shelly1204]

OK, you make a valid point. Im just trying to say that you guys that have way more experience should be more encouraging instead of saying, "Wow, yer an idiot. Go kill yourself for asking that dumb question." I myself am reading Understanding Exposure and love it. But I dont want to just have a pic come out with the correct exposure, I want it to look more expressive and "artsy" than something I could have done with my Canon Powershot SX120 IS P&S camera. You know what I mean. This post almost made me feel like if I ask a question about what shutter speed and aperature to use to get a certain look on a photograph that I should be drawn and quartered. I know that isnt the general consensus of most people on this forum, but if it irks some that bad then they shouldnt peruse the beginners forum in my humble opinion. Im new and not trying to bash anyone, I just want to be a better photographer for my own satisfaction. Anyway, thanks for your time and please have a wonderful Christmas. May everyone's family truly be blessed with happiness and UNDERSTANDING this year.:hug:: :hugs:

That's great, and I totally agree, but it has nothing to do with the original post. For some reason you're interpreting this as a bash the newbie thread. I have no idea why, unless you're a newbie trying to charge people money for expensive snapshots on full auto before learning what you're doing. Then i would understand why you would be offended by the post. As I've said, I'm a newbie myself! I'm continuously sifting through Understand Exposure myself. Am I going to advertise myself as a professional photographer on craig's list when I'm done? No! If you're not either, then ? I was just pointing out a strange phenomenon I noticed in the field of photography. As I've said before, the opinions and life experiences shared on this board by those with experience are invaluable, and we, as newbies, are incredibly grateful for their patience. But if I was them, I might begin to be bothered by new people pretending to be at their level, and essentially taking jobs from them, while at the same time giving them a bad reputation.

Happy holidays.

 

[Shelly1204]

Its called being helpfull and teaching what you've learned to those who are learning!!! try it sometimes

Wow, so you think that it's ok for someone to buy the latest DSLR with a kit lens, and start booking jobs and taking people's money before they know how to use it? And you think that the professional photographers on this forum, even though this new person is essentially taking jobs from them, lowering market prices, and ruining the reputation of professional photographers everywhere, should feel obligated to help them do it?

Interesting.

 

[jnm]

Its called being helpfull and teaching what you've learned to those who are learning!!! try it sometimes

Wow, so you think that it's ok for someone to buy the latest DSLR with a kit lens, and start booking jobs and taking people's money before they know how to use it? And you think that the professional photographers on this forum, even though this new person is essentially taking jobs from them, lowering market prices, and ruining the reputation of professional photographers everywhere, should feel obligated to help them do it?

Interesting.

maybe i miss a lot of those threads someplace i dont look, but from what i have seen i think the majority of users here and other forums are looking to just learn and have little to no interest in ever charging money.

you could say that the real pro's on here that help the other real pro's get better are doing the same thing, helping someone that could very well take their potential clients. if they help their pro brethren improve they're thinning their own market.

if someone is willing to pay for the crap the newbies produce then i don't know they would ever seek out a true pro anyways. especially for weddings i dont think they operate in the same space. i dont think a pro charging $3500 for a wedding is going to have too many clients stolen by someone willing to do it for $500 cause they just bought a new camera. maybe im wrong but from my experience it's a totally different clientele, so where's the harm in lending a hand?

 

[Weaving Wax]

I also wouldn't assume that just because someone is charging $500 for a wedding doesn't know what they're doing. Sometimes they are beginners who are new to the business of photography and not photography itself and don't feel confident charging $3500 for a wedding. I know I wouldn't be if I were straight out of photography school or something and have never done it before.

Also, its the same way in music production. It used to be that you needed a fancy studio with lots of pro gear to produce an album. Now some hack with less than $500 can produce one for you with pro tools. I believe that the quality of the work will be what sets apart the boys from the men and the girls from the women.

 

[Rekd]

Its called being helpfull and teaching what you've learned to those who are learning!!! try it sometimes

Wow, so you think that it's ok for someone to buy the latest DSLR with a kit lens, and start booking jobs and taking people's money before they know how to use it? And you think that the professional photographers on this forum, even though this new person is essentially taking jobs from them, lowering market prices, and ruining the reputation of professional photographers everywhere, should feel obligated to help them do it?

Interesting.

Wow, so you think that people shouldn't try to make money taking pictures, even if they're new? And you think you have some sort of say in what others can or cannot do with their camera equipment?

Interesting.

Seriously, if you're that insecure about your ability to take a good picture and sell it perhaps a job at the drive-through window is in order.