I know I'm new to TPF and all, but....

Photography is big business and in this struggling economy where people are having difficulty finding standardized employment they are turning to trying their hands at self employment. As it is right now photography is amung the cheapest self employment possibilities. People are under the impression that all they need is a camera to make money so they get them selves a camera and try only to find out it takes more than a camera.


Let them try and fall on their faces as far as I am concerned.
 
People will figure out they are not pros when they don't make any money.

We are making this conversation harder than it needs to be.

I agree. But the thing is, they ARE making money. At least, some of them are. I'm not noticing this phenomenon on just photography forums. I'm a lawyer and I'm in court almost every day. At least 2 or 3 times a month I'll see a photographer on the docket, being sued for ruining someone's wedding. It's always a very sad situation, and it makes me wonder how someone can NOT realize that they don't know what they're doing?

And how does the customer not realize how bad the photographer is? If people are going to shop around the same they read manuals, meaning they don't, it is their problem. Isn't it?
 
Photography is big business and in this struggling economy where people are having difficulty finding standardized employment they are turning to trying their hands at self employment. As it is right now photography is amung the cheapest self employment possibilities. People are under the impression that all they need is a camera to make money so they get them selves a camera and try only to find out it takes more than a camera.


Let them try and fall on their faces as far as I am concerned.

As a photographer, why wouldnt you be more encouraging towards people that want to express themselves with a camera. Let me give you an example of what you sound like:

I am Greek-American and speak the Greek language. You are not Greek and you are a student in college taking a course on speaking Greek. I hope that you fail, because you know nothing about Greek, Greece, the history, or the culture.

Wow I kind of sound like an A-hole dont I?
 
People sued for "ruining a wedding?"

Thats pretty funny. I would hope people would be smart enough to build a contract explicitly outlining that they cannot be held responsible.

There are some responsibilities that you cannot simply "contract" out of, despite the wording. Unfortunately most people do not come to that realization until it's too late.

You couldn't say "photographer makes no warranty, satisfaction guarantee, or otherwise implied guarantees regarding end product. Upon contract signing, client is cognizant they have made a choice to hire us, and are aware that all work is non-refundable, and carries no form of guarantee."???

Of course you could put that in better "lawyer terms" but why wouldn't that work? The suit would get in front of a judge and he would say, well didn't you read this?
 
Photography is big business and in this struggling economy where people are having difficulty finding standardized employment they are turning to trying their hands at self employment. As it is right now photography is amung the cheapest self employment possibilities. People are under the impression that all they need is a camera to make money so they get them selves a camera and try only to find out it takes more than a camera.


Let them try and fall on their faces as far as I am concerned.

As a photographer, why wouldnt you be more encouraging towards people that want to express themselves with a camera. Let me give you an example of what you sound like:

I am Greek-American and speak the Greek language. You are not Greek and you are a student in college taking a course on speaking Greek. I hope that you fail, because you know nothing about Greek, Greece, the history, or the culture.

Wow I kind of sound like an A-hole dont I?


:lmao:

Too funny. Not to mention that you are absolutely right.

And then, there is the problem that photography is far from being the cheapest (definitely not the easiest) way to be self-employed. :D
 
Photography is big business and in this struggling economy where people are having difficulty finding standardized employment they are turning to trying their hands at self employment. As it is right now photography is amung the cheapest self employment possibilities. People are under the impression that all they need is a camera to make money so they get them selves a camera and try only to find out it takes more than a camera.


Let them try and fall on their faces as far as I am concerned.

As a photographer, why wouldnt you be more encouraging towards people that want to express themselves with a camera. Let me give you an example of what you sound like:

I am Greek-American and speak the Greek language. You are not Greek and you are a student in college taking a course on speaking Greek. I hope that you fail, because you know nothing about Greek, Greece, the history, or the culture.

Wow I kind of sound like an A-hole dont I?

You completely misinturpreted my post.

As a photographer I have no issues with people expressing them selves with a camera....but there is a world of difference between self expression and professional photography.

The first part of the original post was directed at people who have just bought their camera thinking they can run out and start photographing weddings and what not professionally. It had absolutely nothing to do with hobbiests buying a camera for self expression.
 
I think a sticky thread just for the What Camera and Raw vs Jpeg questions would really help a lot. Any other threads could just be deleted (I am not sure how many moderators there are around here so that could be a tough task but still...)

I know the tutorial thread is pretty good but I think there is almost to much info in there for some people and they just skip right over it.
 
I think a sticky thread just for the What Camera and Raw vs Jpeg questions would really help a lot. Any other threads could just be deleted (I am not sure how many moderators there are around here so that could be a tough task but still...)

I know the tutorial thread is pretty good but I think there is almost to much info in there for some people and they just skip right over it.

Moderators do come around, but not often enough to do the cleanups you mention.

As for stickies, that wont work. Its a fundamental issue of many people wanting answers to their questions, right now. They post, then come back to check replies. They dont want to research, they dont want to google, they dont want to do it on their own, they want to be told.

I understand that there are many answers to questions, and sometimes, you just dont know how to ask the right question, but either way, its a sympton of the technological world we live in were information is right here, right now. People want fast food, fast cash, fast information. They want to buy a camera, buy a lens, and get awesome results right out of the camera, no hard work or real learning involved.

Dont get me wrong, I dont think this is everyone. Some people want to learn and want to get better. But most just want
 
I love the intro...

Is this pretty much the gist of the new people on this forum?
Pretty much, but not just on this forum, on few others where I am as well.

How do you guys who have been here for so long have patience?
I haven't been on this one this long but once in a while a CC thread pops out and the person asking is actually genuine about his/hers work and wants to learn and improve. Its worth it :)


For those who do photography full time, doesn't it piss you off a bit that so many people think they can buy an expensive camera and bam, they're automatically at your level?
Can't even begin to explain how much it pisses me off. The worse is that these are the people who COMPLETELY underprice the market not by 50% but even 75and above. But, this is reality of digital photography. This BS didn't go on in film, its actually very nice and just warms my heart to read threads by folks who are buying 35mm or medium format cameras.
thanks for pointing this out, now you pissed off about 50% of members :D
 
And how does the customer not realize how bad the photographer is? If people are going to shop around the same they read manuals, meaning they don't, it is their problem. Isn't it?

From what I've seen, the customary practice is to cut and paste photos of other people's wedding shots from the internet, and create a web page with the new photographer's name on it, then post an ad on craig's list offering services. Instant portfolio.
 
You couldn't say "photographer makes no warranty, satisfaction guarantee, or otherwise implied guarantees regarding end product. Upon contract signing, client is cognizant they have made a choice to hire us, and are aware that all work is non-refundable, and carries no form of guarantee."???

Of course you could put that in better "lawyer terms" but why wouldn't that work? The suit would get in front of a judge and he would say, well didn't you read this?

It depends on the state that you live in, but generally, no.
 
Photography is big business and in this struggling economy where people are having difficulty finding standardized employment they are turning to trying their hands at self employment. As it is right now photography is amung the cheapest self employment possibilities. People are under the impression that all they need is a camera to make money so they get them selves a camera and try only to find out it takes more than a camera.


Let them try and fall on their faces as far as I am concerned.

As a photographer, why wouldnt you be more encouraging towards people that want to express themselves with a camera. Let me give you an example of what you sound like:

I am Greek-American and speak the Greek language. You are not Greek and you are a student in college taking a course on speaking Greek. I hope that you fail, because you know nothing about Greek, Greece, the history, or the culture.

Wow I kind of sound like an A-hole dont I?

Your analogy would be more accurate if the student taking a college course on speaking Greek decides to moonlight as a Greek translator, charging a ton of money even though he doesn't know what he's doing, and botches the translations of sensitive documents, giving all Greeks a bad name.
 
From what I've seen, the customary practice is to cut and paste photos ....
I shoot for myself and for the love of it, so I don't have that anvil dangling over my head, so take this with a salt block in hand....
Are you confident in your skill set, business practices and customer services? If so then remember, the creme always rises to the top. Focus on YOUR business, not others. Unless they are in direct competition in your area, I wouldn't worry about what others do on the internet with "I just bought a XXX camera". But in the same breath, let that be motivation for you to improve and stand out with your body of work.
 
The internet and digital technology makes it easy for one to "appear" to be a "pro" photographer, until they have to create and PP their own shots.

Just go get some cool digital equipment, look like you know what you are doing, and "fake it till you make it" So what if you overcharge and rip off a few customers along the way because you don't really know what the frick you are doing.

Problem is, sometimes, that puts serious photographers in an undeserved bad light... This is EEAASSSYYY, you tell us.

Even learning film photography was never an overnight process, really should be more of a life-long one, we never stop learning, at least I haven't, but I've only been shooting for 40 years. I don't know it all, and I know that I don't know it all. Know that for sure!

There is math, physics, some knowledge of mechanics, and knowledge of computer hardware and software involved in digital photography, as well as adding chemistry to film photography if you do any of your own processing.

In the digital world one can create an acceptable photo, but many of them just look like snapshots or amateurish, but the noobie doesn't know, or want to admit that.

Look how many shots asking for C&C are way too dark, the picturetaker didn't even know enough to use a flash.

A good photographer can create a nice image with a Kodak Brownie Box camera, it isn't just the equipment that makes a good photographer. It is that acquired knowledge that you have to do for yourself.

There is NOTHING AT ALL wrong with someone coming to TPF and seriously wanting to learn and improve, but like mentioned above many just want fast answers, they want the short cuts, and want someone else to google for them. You can usually tell who wants to be spoon fed. Sorry if it irritates some of us, but can't you see why?

Another question that irks me is "Where can I buy (whatever) for cheap?" You get what you pay for, or you pay for what you get. Even though the common answer over and over and over and over again as to where to buy online is Adorama, B&H, or KEH, they ignore and keep asking. They don't read that, they just ask without searching.

So they take a few shots that look good to them, don't ever read the rules, and post 30 slow loading snapshots for C&C. Or they ask for C&C, and get defensive when someone gives it to them.

"I got a photo gig tomorrow, a wedding, so do I need lighting, and what kind? Will my kit lens work?" Someone who has a real passion for photography wouldn't normally take these kinds of short cuts in the film world, but they sure do now...

I have mentioned this before, about actually seeing a guy doing an event for pay, supposedly he was a pro. He had expensive Nikon equipment, two upscale bodies, everything I saw was 2.8 lenses. There was a belt around his waist, with all the lenses held to the belt by those corded lenscap keepers attached to the lens caps, and the other end of the cords to his belt with clips. Lenses were dangling and banging together all around him. I mentioned it, he said it was a fast way for him to do his lens changes.

I asked him how long he had been into photography, he told me two weeks. He had been signed up for a photo class, and when he found out how much was involved in the class, decided that he could teach himself faster.

So, once you get your equipment, go through a learning curve, while upgrading your equipment to pro quality gear...

Then, for whatever percentage of being a pro photographer is time and effort and blood and sweat and tears to learn your craft, there is another huge side - the business part of being a professional photographer and running a successful business.

Happy shooting!
 

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