Is it advisable for a poor high school student to get a film camera?

Vautrin · Apr 23, 2010

Derrel said:
compur said:

E200 135-36 Ektachrome Professional ISO 200 $9.95

35mm 36 exposure E-6 slide develop and mount $10.00

Click to expand...

There's a huge range that film could cost depending on what you're shooting, and what equiptment you buy, etc. For instance, there are different films with different cost. As other posters have already pointed out, black and white film will be much cheaper on a per shot basis even if you're buying the rolls.

But if you really want to save money you can go the bulk film route. Basically you get some film canisters, and you get a can with a roll of 35mm film, and you put film in each canister yourself. Doing a quick google you can buy 100ft of film for $30 which will get you about 20 rolls of film. That's about $1.5 a roll, once you've paid for the bulk film canisters and loader. Of course depending on which brand of film and type you use costs will vary, but even that kodachrome can cost $6 a roll

The thing that will really determine the cost of film photography is what resources you already have available, and how hard you look for deals. Check to see if through your school or maybe a local community college you have a photo lab available to you -- you might be able to get access to a dark room and tools like a bulk loader for free or little cost. And deals are out there if you keep your eyes open and know what to look for. You just need to look around -- I picked up a Pentax K1000 at a yard sale that was in perfect condition

The big reason I would recommend film for someone who is learning is that the quality of the optics (and the resulting pictures you can take) will be a giant leap over even a low end dSLR. For instance, my 45 pentax has a 50mm / f 2.0 lens. To get a lens for my olympus digital SLR that can do f 2.0 @ 50mm I'd have to spend upwards of 2,000! And with a film camera your pictures are going to look much different then with even a high end digital SLR. However that will come with its own set of problems. You'll need to make your own prints, for instance, if you want high quality, well done prints. That will take time to learn, and may take a lot of effort.

So I guess what it all boils down to is what do you want out of photography?

If you just want to take snapshots of your friends, go with a digital point and shoot like other posters have recommended. Even a cheap one from best buy will still have manual picture modes if you dig through the manual, and it might be enough.

If you want to learn to shoot photos that look like they could have been taken by professionals you want an SLR. Look at what resources you have available for film (e.g. can you get access to a dark room) and if you want (or can afford) the set up costs and continuing costs of film. You may need to be creative to get your own set up but it can be done...

BTW, scanner + film is a great combo, but I think you'd have to look hard for a good deal to stay within budget...

coreduo · Jun 13, 2010

I work on minimum wage, $8/hour. I aspired too for a camera as a poor factory worker. What did I do to be able to afford the perks? I worked 12-16 hours a day, on weekends, 8 hours a day. I still have money left for vices like beer and cigarettes. Because of my work ethics, I now earn 14 dollars/hour. My boss gave me 1 dollar increase/hour/year.

To commies who are skeptical, ask yourselves, how much does a Chicom earn in China? How many hours is he allowed to work.How much can he afford to buy? (I am not demeaning anybody. But the commies are stubbornly invoking Maoism in the Philippines). Life is hard. Where can you find work that is not hard. Even in communist countriers, work is hard if not hardest. We remain salaried workers under communism if Obama succeeds in turning America into one. So there is no argument against capitalism. Take those Filipinos in Toronto, Canada as examples. They work hard, pool their resources as members of the family. In 5 years they buy their houses in CASH!!!Then the remaining members take their turns and buy each others' houses again CASH!! Pray unceasingly to able to obtain what you want.."Surrender yourselves to economic and health uncertainty" That is what the Bible commands us to do..."Ask and it shall be given"-God AND DO NOT ENVY THOSE WHO ARE FAR RICHER THAN YOU. THEY HAVE MORE PROBLEMS THAN WE HAVE....THEY PAY TAXES TO FUND OUR CHILDRENS' EDUCATION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS. THEY ALSO PROVIDE ENTERTAINMENT THROUGH TV ADVERTISEMENTS...AND BECAUSE OF THE UNPREDICTABLE DEMAND FOR PRODUCTS IN THE MARKET, THEY ARE NOT ASSURED OF THEIR PROFITS WHILE THEY SATISFY THE WANTS OF THOSE CAMERA ENTHUSIASTS WHO BUY THEIR PRODUCTS..

stephen.2308 · Jun 13, 2010

Well, i was recently in this same predicament. the first thing i did was ask my instructor what he thought was best. he made a few suggestions, none of which were in my price range, so i then searched the internet. after some research i decided that i wanted to get a Minolta XG-M. i bought mine on eBay for $30 (including shipping) and since then i have added two fantastic lenses to my set up and i have still spent less than $100. i guess the point im trying to make is that you can find great options by just looking around and keeping an eye out.
Also, i feel that film cameras are great for hobbies and learning, it gives you a greater appreciation for the work that actually goes into photography.

Sbuxo · Jun 14, 2010

Yes, it's advisable but paper is expensive. If you're talking B&W, that is.:er: And if you're talking Fiber...:lmao::er: Your bank account won't make it out alive. Film is a great learning experience especially if you're DIY and make sure your camera is a DSLR and if you haven't already, learn to shoot manual(ly)! Fiber based paper is expensive, but I suggest getting the 100 8x10 packs, it's the best deal in the long run. But if you're just starting out, which I guess you are...RC is your best option and it's much cheaper. Does your high school have a lab? Is there a University near by that would allow you to use their lab? I know enlargers are very expensive, at least that's what my Professor said, but I think it depends on the brand. I know nothing about having a darkroom in your house, though. :\ I'm guessing it'll be expensive.

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If you're talking about learning with film, your best bet is an SLR, but if you're too pressed for funds and think you're going to be shooting digitally more and can't get a DSLR, get a good semi-manual P&S until you can upgrade. I suggest any of the Canon Powershot SDs. [:

I also suggest getting a summer job?? What grade are you in? Idk how it is in Canada but here, HS kids get out at 2:30, plenty of time for a job, so maybe you can get a PT job to help with your dilemma.

Mike_E · Jun 17, 2010

Great advice Sbuxo, but Ronnie156 has left the building. (you can check by clicking on their name in red above their avatar and then clicking find other posts by...)

So anyway, have you found a dance hall or theater to borrow in their off hours?

MushiiPeas · Jun 17, 2010

I'm at college at the moment and my teacher is really happy to let me use the dark room. I think your tutor will be okay with it as long as you really want to pursue it longer than just college and they can trust you. What college are you at?

You could get a weekend job and save up.... all the hard work will be rewarding.

The only thing with digital is my friend will take a 'okay' photo and just go "oh i'll edit it on photoshop later" and i'm sitting there thinking why didn't you just take more time setting that one up but as long as your care about your photo's it's good.

I'm saving up at the moment for d-slr and i'm going to do a little happy dance when i have enough.

JR Davis · Jun 17, 2010

Shared this info with my wife's photography class, which are vocational students, most cannot afford a new dslr, great ideas.

guitstik · Jun 17, 2010

In my opinion film is the best choice for several reasons, most of which have already been discussed here. With film, you will take more time with the shot because you CAN'T fix it in PS and that will give you a better understanding of what it will take to make a good shot. Film can be relatively inexpensive to develop. I bought a Paterson daylight developer tank off ebay for $15 and a change bag for $8. Chemicals are not that expensive and some can be reused. There are even more corners you can cut like using water instead of stopbath. There are literally hundreds of sites on the web that can point you in the right direction like this one, Build a Film Developing Kit for Under $50

The end to all this is simple. If you are motivated, want to learn and don't mind a little work film is the way to go. It can be a fun hobby that you can enjoy for years to come and it can help you to be a better photographer if you end up going digital.

Another plus for film, you will still be able to take pictures of the end of the world when all the dslr's stop working because of EMP from and upper atmosphere atomic blast :lol:

MushiiPeas · Jun 18, 2010

guitstik said:
. Film can be relatively inexpensive to develop. I bought a Paterson daylight developer tank off ebay for $15 and a change bag for $8. Chemicals are not that expensive and some can be reused. There are even more corners you can cut like using water instead of stopbath. There are literally hundreds of sites on the web that can point you in the right direction like this one, Build a Film Developing Kit for Under $50

Thanks for that link, i though it would be really expensive to develop my stuff at home but now i know it won't be i'm gonna see if my mum will let me dunno how she feel about chemicals at home. :mrgreen: :thumbup:

UUilliam · Jun 18, 2010

My advice,

If you are going to do it for yourself, why not.

Id you are doing it for the course, I would say no, Dark room unfortunately is dying out, I am going into the last year that my college is using the dark room (the college was only built last year!!!! so they got a dark room to use for only 2 years!)

I cannot wait to use the dark room, been in it and the feeling was euphoric

I say, go get a part time job, and save the money for a used DSLR and a lens or 2
that Is what I done.

Vautrin · Jun 18, 2010

UUilliam said:
My advice,

If you are going to do it for yourself, why not.

Id you are doing it for the course, I would say no, Dark room unfortunately is dying out, I am going into the last year that my college is using the dark room (the college was only built last year!!!! so they got a dark room to use for only 2 years!)

I cannot wait to use the dark room, been in it and the feeling was euphoric

I say, go get a part time job, and save the money for a used DSLR and a lens or 2
that Is what I done.

You know I don't think dark room will ever completely die out -- you'll always have the hold outs.

You'll always be able to buy chemicals and film from somebody out there

D-B-J · Jun 18, 2010

Hey, i'm a highschooler too, and iknow how hard it is to get a camera. I saved for about 6 months, and worked my a$$ off to get enough money to buy my camera. I Got a beautiful used d200 for 600 bucks, WITH a lens. Granted, thats not cheap. But after six months of hardcore saving, it was worth every penny. Then i saved and worked for another three months to get another lens. Digital is expensive upfront, but my 105mm 2.8 micro is probably ten years old, and functions beautifully on my camera. Don't bother buying new.

It took alot of saving, but was worth it. so, SAVE SAVE SAVE

epatsellis · Jun 18, 2010

Derrel said:
Uh, nobody said "free" except you in your sarcastic look from a film-shooting POV. Let's look at some current prices, shall we? Some real numbers, not just B.S., okay? Let's shoot 1,000 frames, shall we? Let's price it out, okay?

E200 135-36 Ektachrome Professional ISO 200 $9.95

35mm 36 exposure E-6 slide develop and mount $10.00

1,000 divided by 36 equals 27.7777 rolls. Let's call it 28 rolls, for a total of 1,008 frames with film. 28 rolls of professional slide film costs $278.60 to buy at $9.95 per 36 shot roll, with no shipping costs, no gasoline costs, no travel costs. Processing at $10.00 per 36 exposure roll of slides will run $280.00. So, film cost and developing cost for 1,008 35mm slides is $558.60. That is a little bit over 55 and four-tenth cents PER SHOT with a 35mm film camera.

So, for the cost of a low-end Nikon D40x AND a Nikkor 18-55mm lens, you can shoot and develop 28 rolls of E-6 slide film. Oh, but if you need to pay shipping on the film, add in extra money. And how much money and time will it cost to make all the trips to and from the lab to drop off film, drive home, then drive back,pick up the film, and drive back home? How about when only a few frames are needed? With film, you can shoot 1 frame or 36 frames and the slide developing cost is basically the same. If only 12 exposures are needed on a 36 shot roll , the cost will still be the same for the film and the developing: $19.95 total for the roll of film and the developing and mounting cost; hey, only $1.66 per frame when you need to shoot 12 frames!!! Film is such a great deal!

(Oh, did you want to shoot 200 ISO slide film at 400 ISO? Add the lab's Push/Pull fee of $3.75 per roll)

I bought a FujiFilm S2 Pro d-slr body a number of years ago, and it has shot the equivalent of over $80,000 worth of film and processing. And the camera STILL functions. Cost savings just to create the images, compared with film? $77,501. Sure, there were hard drives that had to be bought to archive the images, and DVD discs to back up the images as well. But nowhere near $77,501 worth of media is or was needed to archive that many digital images. The slide mounting pages, notebooks,and cabinets to house 143,000 35mm mounted slides would probably cost $10,000 quite easily.

So, one single d-slr body that created roughly 143,000 images, shot over four years, at a cost of $2,499 for the camera; a camera that in today's marketplace, could be purchased new for only $500 or so, due to the huge drop in d-slr prices since 2002. A D40x is easily the equivalent of the S2Pro.
A Canon 7D or Nikon D300s is easily,easily a vastly superior camera.

Yeah, film is economical compared to digital capture. Sure. Right. Oh, and if you want to push-process some slide film, add that $3.75 surcharge per roll.

Or, you could shoot

short dated C41 film, about $2.00 a roll,
process it in your kitchen sink about $1.60 a roll
Scan and proof (cost depends on what you have, or have access to) worst case is $3.00 to $4.00 for proofs, 4.68 from costco and the like @ .13 each 4x6.

One stop push processing, cost you 30 seconds, no more money. 2 stops, 45 seconds, still no money. Want to play with acceleration? No more money, other than the cost of your B&W developer. Cross processing? costs you no more, in fact it could be less if you find out of date E6 film inexpensively. As an art major, the ability to have that kind of creative control is very powerful. Depending on your creative bent, you can find materials inexpensively, if you are willing to look.

Want to shoot transparencies? Walmart offers send out E6 processing for around $2.00 a roll, far from the $10.00 mentioned above. There are many sources for short dated E6 film as well, I have never paid more than $2.50 a roll for either 35mm or 120 film, either E6 or C41. If it's been refrigerated, and you store it in the freezer, you will be fine. (just ask my wife, we have an entire freezer, just for film. When we get low on a particular type, we buy a few bricks to replace it)

so to summarize, using the same 28 rolls referenced above (assuming you print 50 8x10's at costco for $1.49) :

C41: film cost $70.00; processing $44.80;prints $74.50 for a total $189.00

E6: Film Cost $70.00; processing (walmart)$56.00 for a total of $126.00

As an aside, E6 film is the worst film to shoot when starting out, with very limited dynamic range, the extreme exposure accuracy needed and limited printing options (Ciba is just too damn expensive these days, leaving scan and print, or internegatives)

After proofing, you can decide which prints to actually print, either yourself or go to costco/wally world and pay around $1 for an 8x10. (I prefer using the studio's Frontier for scan, proof and printing, as it cost me $0).

Add to the cost the camera of your choice, I have used F3's for years, an F3/MD4 combo is about $200, add a couple of mid range AI lenses for a hundred or so each and you are still far and away ahead of what you would be shooting digital. Now if you were getting paid for the job and needed fresh, color matched rolls, then yes, $10 a roll is fine, as you typically expense film and processing costs anyway. (or you should be directly or indirectly.)

This is just my opinion, I shoot both and still find film to be less expensive, even at 10 exposures per roll on 120 film. The key is having a clear vision of what you want before you shoot, as well as having the skill and familiarity with your equipment to make it so.

Some do, some don't. Without exception, every one of my fellow students will wander around an object shooting away, then decide later. I prefer to wander around, find the viewpoint I prefer or have envisioned, shoot one or two exposures and move on.

epatsellis · Jun 18, 2010

UUilliam said:
My advice,

If you are going to do it for yourself, why not.

Id you are doing it for the course, I would say no, Dark room unfortunately is dying out, I am going into the last year that my college is using the dark room (the college was only built last year!!!! so they got a dark room to use for only 2 years!)

I cannot wait to use the dark room, been in it and the feeling was euphoric

I say, go get a part time job, and save the money for a used DSLR and a lens or 2
that Is what I done.

That's interesting, as of the 5 schools I am looking into for grad work (starting early, never hurts to get to know the faculty and selection committee members early), every one of them has either renovated and upgraded their facilities, or totally gutted and renewed them. Every single one had at the least a 20" RA4 processor, with one having a larger one.

I guess it really depends on what level you want to work at, and whether it's incidental to your major or your major.

erie