Is there any downside of using fullframe lens on a crop sensor body?

Discussion in 'Sony Cameras' started by donscot, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. weepete

    weepete TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    I was under the impression that EF-S mount was created so that Canon could scale down exising lens designs and use cheaper and lighter materials as opposed to designing new lenses by scratch.

    The only real downside to using EF lenses is that the focal lengths of EF mount lenses are optimised for full frame cameras so can be a bit weird. One of my favorite focal lengths used to be 24-105mm but on a cropped sensor camera the wide end is more like a short telephoto where the EF-S 15-85mm is in my opinion much more flexible.


     
  2. donscot

    donscot TPF Noob!

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    Is the focal length of 1.8/50 mm of a ff lens changes to 75 mm on a crop body due to the 1.5 crop factor, or it stays 50 mm?
     
  3. ronlane

    ronlane What's next? Supporting Member

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    The lens is a 50mm on both full frame and crop sensor. But when mounted on the crop sensor the field of view is less than 50mm making it look like a 75mm on a Nikon (1.5) and 80mm on a Canon (1.6) full frame camera.
     
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  4. Designer

    Designer Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Of course, nothing actually changes.

    The only thing that appears to be different is the field of view (FOV).

    Try this at home: Look at a scene with one eye, then hold an empty paper roll core up to your eye, and you'll see much less of that same area.

    Note: This is only an exercise to represent a reduced FOV, and is not intended to represent any differences in sensor size or focal length.
     
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  5. Soocom1

    Soocom1 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    There is a huge misconception over the FF v. crop that I got hammered on yet is being repeated here.

    APS sensors are just that. APS sensors.

    There really isn't any real magnification taking place. The "magnification" is seen because of the smaller area that when the image is enlarged to a standard size like a 4x6 or 8x10, the smaller image capture has to be enlarged more.

    BUT, that also means that the pixels in the image are enlarged the same amount and thus a lower actual resolution if compared to a comparable FF image.
    A digital camera built with lenses specific to APS image areas are not "crop".

    The "Crop" aspect is when you use a FF lens on an APS camera because as stated, its simply a smaller area captured. The mounting distance on a "crop" camera is the same as a FF. Just a smaller image area.
     
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  6. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    When you say the mounting distance is the same, if you mean the flange on the lens to the focal plane, which is commonly called the flange focal distance, this distance is actually not the same in Canon brand lenses, but it's the same in other brands such as Nikon or Sony or Pentax. Because the distance is different the Canon ef-s lenses extend farther into the body and cannot be used on Canon full-frame cameras or even Canon aps-h cameras like the 1DS series. On Nikon cameras their smaller image Circle DX lenses can be mounted and used on full frame or FX models series cameras.
     
  7. Soocom1

    Soocom1 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Ergo: Digital systems. Ergo; not actually a crop camera or more accurately cropped factor unless using an EF lens.
    The EOS line of DSLR's (M and R must be excluded here) uses the same mounting distance in the camera.
    The lenses are different betweent he EF and EF-S. But if the APS BODIES can mount the EF lenses, the mounting distance IS the same.

    When I spoke before over the image being exactly the same, this is what I was referring to.

    The mounting distance of the EOS system (APS or FF) is the same, thus the "crop" aspect is only when the EF lens is used.
    No you cannot mount an EF-S lens to the FF body, but the mounting distance of the EOS APS cameras are the same because if they were not, the focus on an EF lens mounted on an APS camera wouldn't hit infinity.
     
  8. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Ef-s short mount. ... the rearmost portion of the lens itself extends farther into the camera body, so far that the mirror in EF cameras will strike the back edge of the lenses. There was no technical reason to do this, as other camera manufacturers clearly saw. I think it was a way to make low priced ef-s lenses unusable on full frame and aps-h model cameras, as a way to force users who wished to move to different format bodies to buy all new lenses. Canon is a lens maker as well as a body maker.
     
  9. Soocom1

    Soocom1 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Actually having talked to an engineer who worked for Canon in the early 2000s it had to do with the fact that the EF-S lenses allowed for lower actual prime lenses rather than short end (back focus) telephoto designs.

    Canon thought that APS sensors would take over and eliminate the 35mm geneara.
    FF has in comparable pixel size a better image AND right out of Chevy's playbook with the Camaro, make the FF a high end commodity like Z28 (V8) over the "regular" APS size (V6) stuff.
     
  10. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Well despite what your engineer friend told you Canon has not followed through much on that idea but they have released three aps-c EFS prime lenses each one priced at around $200. I actually do not believe what he said, since aps-c prime lenses have been built in very few cases, and have not sold well, and have not gained hardly any traction. Both Canon and Nikon have released just a few aps-c or DX prime lenses, and they have been very poor sellers. I can't think of the last person I heard discussing an aps-c prime lens, even though the three Canons look really neat to me.

    The decision by Canon to make a lens line/ mount that is not usable on their better cameras was in my opinion quite foolish. Nikon, and Sony, and Pentax, decided to make their lenses fully interchangeable between their aps-c cameras and full frame models. Trying to force consumers into a cattle pen was not a good idea.

    Nikon has a 10.5 mm, a 40 mm, and an 85 mm, and perhaps others. The Canon company has a really appealing,to me at least, 24 mm F 2.8 pancake, that is a pretty much a weird length when used on a 1.6 X sensor. I do like a pancake lenses however, and have owned two over the years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  11. Soocom1

    Soocom1 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Not arguing the foolishness of the decision.
    But remember this was late 2001 an early 2002. the decision at that time was also geared directly toward debunking the Kodak DCS pro. That was almost 20 years ago. things change including the decision of Canon, Minolta and others on the APS FILM line to begin with.
    (Ergo the EOS Ixe.) I mounted my now deceased 35-350 on that camera and was shocked over how it actually performed.

    Dont forget the EOS 10D either. An APS SLR with EF mount only.

    Kodak, Motorola, Minolta, IBM, the list is long on stupid corporate decisions.
    simply because something didn't come to fruition doesn't mean it wasn't tried.
     
  12. Soocom1

    Soocom1 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Also, Canon's derision to put plastic mounts ont he lenses.
    I just got an order from UPP for a 55-250 EF-S that has two broken mounting flanges.
    Now I need them for the wedding THIS FRIDAY, and dont have time to reorder the lens or return it.

    I am certain that many others who have had plastic mounts also can attest to the idiocy of that, but it still goes on.

    The 50mm F1.8 old version has plastic mounts, but the STM has steel. Why do you think that is?
     

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