Is this a good deal?

[KmH]

The End.

 

[cgipson1]

The End.

Uhhh.. Keith.. you missed it again!

EDIT: My mistake.. that was not a CLOSE! lol

 

[IByte]

I am throwing money at the hobby because I am learning so much and I feel my equipment is minimizing my ability to go tot he next step. Maybe i havnt mastered each peice of photography but I am the type of person with any hobby to learn it all at once slowly rather than master one thing at a time. Flash for instance, everyone says master NL first then worry about flash. To me, thats dumb, why master something if you know you will be using something else months down the road. To someone else that may be a better way to learn but no one can judge someone's way of learning.

Why learn NL before Flash? Probably people need to learn the basics before branching out. My trolly sense is tingling.

 

[sactown024]

I just can't help you. That's it. You are going to charge forth without any thought to really learning FIRST. If that's the way you need to go, then go for it. The way you are insisting that these lenses are limiting to you is pure BS at this point and you don't even know it yet, nor do you want to even bother to learn what you don't know. I can't help you.

t

Mleek, I am not ignoring your statements and I use your knowledge, I know i have a lto to learn, no doubt. I am trying to get it across to you that i want a new lens, thats why i am posting here, doesnt matter why i want one, I just asked a simple question is it a good deal? yes we got side tracked to the 50mm 1.4 and again i was just asking if it was a better lens than the 1.8, a simple yes it or no its not and a reason why would be fine but I dont need eveyone to tell me I need to learn the basics, thats a given, it does not change the fact I want a new lens.

i still respect your opinion and I am not trying to come off as a jerk, please dont take it that way.

 

[IByte]

But that's Nikon your talking about right?? Op shoots canon

....oops and that's why I'm still a novice =8)

 

[MLeeK]

I just can't help you. That's it. You are going to charge forth without any thought to really learning FIRST. If that's the way you need to go, then go for it. The way you are insisting that these lenses are limiting to you is pure BS at this point and you don't even know it yet, nor do you want to even bother to learn what you don't know. I can't help you.

t

Mleek, I am not ignoring your statements and I use your knowledge, I know i have a lto to learn, no doubt. I am trying to get it across to you that i want a new lens, thats why i am posting here, doesnt matter why i want one, I just asked a simple question is it a good deal? yes we got side tracked to the 50mm 1.4 and again i was just asking if it was a better lens than the 1.8, a simple yes it or no its not and a reason why would be fine but I dont need eveyone to tell me I need to learn the basics, thats a given, it does not change the fact I want a new lens.

i still respect your opinion and I am not trying to come off as a jerk, please dont take it that way.

I am giving you the answer: No, it's not a good deal and nothing will be a good deal if it isn't what you need down the road. I answered in response to the statement that you don't have $1000's to spend and want to make good choices and explained what you need to make proper choices, but you don't seem to get that and would prefer to spend your $ on a lens you may or may not need down the line.
Do what you gotta do.

 

[pgriz]

ah, that's the issue? You just want a new lens? Then, by all means, go get it. Just be truthful to yourself that it won't change much as for as image-making is concerned.

However, if you want to improve to the point that you can consider earning money at this activity, then there's a bit more effort required.

Learning something, is like constructing a house - a solid foundation provides good support for the structure that is built on top. What components are there in this foundation? Here are a few:

1) Understanding light (hard light, soft light, light temperature, light intensity, light balance (if more than one source), and its cousin, shadows. This also explores diffusion, reflection, transmission of light.
2) Understanding Depth of field and its relation to aperture, focal length, and sensor size.
3) Understanding shutter speed and its relation to capture of motion.
4) Understanding composition - what arrangements are pleasing to the eye, and why
5) Understanding posing, either single or in groups.
6) Understanding the capabilities and limits of "your" equipment (what's the dynamic range? which iso speeds give good or acceptable noise performance? What is the sharpness and distortion profile of the lenses you use? Where do you get Chromatic abberation, and diffraction?).

Then there is technique and skill - handholding technique to minimize camera shake, panning technique to capture motion, anticipation to capture the key moment, ability to focus either manually or assisted to place the focus and DOF where you need it...

And after the image is taken, there is the post-processing that is done to polish the diamond, to extract the maximum amount of goodness that is present in the image.

Notice that the first five are equipment independent. If you know the first five, you can deliver stunning images with basic equipment. But if you don't know this, then the manufacturers and retailers will love you, for you will always be looking for solutions in the tools, and they will always want to sell you "better" tools. It is very seductive to think that the only thing preventing you from creating gorgeous images is the equipment. It takes you off the hook. It gives you a ready-made excuse. And it would be false.

That's why we're telling you that if the objective is to learn enough to earn money, buying a lens won't get you very far down that particular road. But if that's not the road you want to take, who are we to tell you how to spend your money?

 

[MTVision]

ah, that's the issue? You just want a new lens? Then, by all means, go get it. Just be truthful to yourself that it won't change much as for as image-making is concerned.

However, if you want to improve to the point that you can consider earning money at this activity, then there's a bit more effort required.

Learning something, is like constructing a house - a solid foundation provides good support for the structure that is built on top. What components are there in this foundation? Here are a few:

1) Understanding light (hard light, soft light, light temperature, light intensity, light balance (if more than one source), and its cousin, shadows. This also explores diffusion, reflection, transmission of light.
2) Understanding Depth of field and its relation to aperture, focal length, and sensor size.
3) Understanding shutter speed and its relation to capture of motion.
4) Understanding composition - what arrangements are pleasing to the eye, and why
5) Understanding posing, either single or in groups.
6) Understanding the capabilities and limits of "your" equipment (what's the dynamic range? which iso speeds give good or acceptable noise performance? What is the sharpness and distortion profile of the lenses you use? Where do you get Chromatic abberation, and diffraction?).

Then there is technique and skill - handholding technique to minimize camera shake, panning technique to capture motion, anticipation to capture the key moment, ability to focus either manually or assisted to place the focus and DOF where you need it...

And after the image is taken, there is the post-processing that is done to polish the diamond, to extract the maximum amount of goodness that is present in the image.

Notice that the first five are equipment independent. If you know the first five, you can deliver stunning images with basic equipment. But if you don't know this, then the manufacturers and retailers will love you, for you will always be looking for solutions in the tools, and they will always want to sell you "better" tools. It is very seductive to think that the only thing preventing you from creating gorgeous images is the equipment. It takes you off the hook. It gives you a ready-made excuse. And it would be false.

That's why we're telling you that if the objective is to learn enough to earn money, buying a lens won't get you very far down that particular road. But if that's not the road you want to take, who are we to tell you how to spend your money?

I love all your posts! They are so well-written and full of valuable information!!

 

[pgriz]

Thanks, Megan. Kind words. I don't have much, but I do like to share...

 

[mjhoward]

i found someone on Craigslist that is selling his 17-85mm USM lens for $325 or trade for a 18-55mm kit lens+ $225. First thing, I want a good lens for portraits, is this a good choice? secondly, will it replace my 50mm 1.8 as far as brokeh, sharpness and overall quality?

It's only marginally better than the old 18-55mm kit lens, a difference that you're likely to never notice unless you were conducting lab experiments. As far as the "brokeh", it will likely be a bit better since it uses 6 rounded aperture blades rather than the 5 straight blades of the 50 1.8 but something tells me you were referring to the amount of blur, not the quality of it, which will depend on a number of factors. The 50 is likely to be sharper as well and they are both made of cheap plastic, so equal quality. So to answer your question, no that wouldn't be worth it. BTW, you don't need a 1k lens... You can get a good constant f/2.8 third party zoom lens for ~$400 pretty easily.

 

[sactown024]

i found someone on Craigslist that is selling his 17-85mm USM lens for $325 or trade for a 18-55mm kit lens+ $225. First thing, I want a good lens for portraits, is this a good choice? secondly, will it replace my 50mm 1.8 as far as brokeh, sharpness and overall quality?

It's only marginally better than the old 18-55mm kit lens, a difference that you're likely to never notice unless you were conducting lab experiments. As far as the "brokeh", it will likely be a bit better since it uses 6 rounded aperture blades rather than the 5 straight blades of the 50 1.8 but something tells me you were referring to the amount of blur, not the quality of it, which will depend on a number of factors. The 50 is likely to be sharper as well and they are both made of cheap plastic, so equal quality. So to answer your question, no that wouldn't be worth it. BTW, you don't need a 1k lens... You can get a good constant f/2.8 third party zoom lens for ~$400 pretty easily.

your the first person in this 4 page thread that has actually answered my question, thank you for the input!

 

[sactown024]

ah, that's the issue? You just want a new lens? Then, by all means, go get it. Just be truthful to yourself that it won't change much as for as image-making is concerned.

However, if you want to improve to the point that you can consider earning money at this activity, then there's a bit more effort required.

Learning something, is like constructing a house - a solid foundation provides good support for the structure that is built on top. What components are there in this foundation? Here are a few:

1) Understanding light (hard light, soft light, light temperature, light intensity, light balance (if more than one source), and its cousin, shadows. This also explores diffusion, reflection, transmission of light.
2) Understanding Depth of field and its relation to aperture, focal length, and sensor size.
3) Understanding shutter speed and its relation to capture of motion.
4) Understanding composition - what arrangements are pleasing to the eye, and why
5) Understanding posing, either single or in groups.
6) Understanding the capabilities and limits of "your" equipment (what's the dynamic range? which iso speeds give good or acceptable noise performance? What is the sharpness and distortion profile of the lenses you use? Where do you get Chromatic abberation, and diffraction?).

Then there is technique and skill - handholding technique to minimize camera shake, panning technique to capture motion, anticipation to capture the key moment, ability to focus either manually or assisted to place the focus and DOF where you need it...

And after the image is taken, there is the post-processing that is done to polish the diamond, to extract the maximum amount of goodness that is present in the image.

Notice that the first five are equipment independent. If you know the first five, you can deliver stunning images with basic equipment. But if you don't know this, then the manufacturers and retailers will love you, for you will always be looking for solutions in the tools, and they will always want to sell you "better" tools. It is very seductive to think that the only thing preventing you from creating gorgeous images is the equipment. It takes you off the hook. It gives you a ready-made excuse. And it would be false.

That's why we're telling you that if the objective is to learn enough to earn money, buying a lens won't get you very far down that particular road. But if that's not the road you want to take, who are we to tell you how to spend your money?

yes, i understand there are basics to photography and a lot to learn just like building cars or houses or anything else in this world, that is the obvious, I would hope everyone starting a hobby would uinderstand this concept. BUT this doesnt mean you have to learn everything using basic equipment, it can be learned using better equipment and getting better results each time you learn something new.

But, on a side note, I just discovered glassandgear.com which you can rent lenses super cheap. At least this way i can test it to see if its worth the extra money.

 

[MTVision]

your the first person in this 4 page thread that has actually answered my question, thank you for the input!

My opinion (cus you know you want it) is to forget that lens for now. You don't really gain anything by it except it's a little longer. But it's slower to start with - only opens to f/4.5 @ 17mm whereas the kit opened to f/3.5 @ 18mm (I think). It definitely won't be an improvement over your 50mm. If your going to spend money on a zoom get one without a variable aperture. You might look at third party brands too. I've never used this specific lenses but I have heard good things about the Nikon version

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0000A1G05/ref=redir_mdp_mobile

A used copy is probably in your budget.

Or you could just stick with the setup you have now and keep putting money away to get a really nice lens.

...

 

[MLeeK]

Their rental prices are awesome. Their shipping prices make up for it though!
I think renting is a great idea to try things out!

 

[tirediron]

...yes, i understand there are basics to photography and a lot to learn just like building cars or houses or anything else in this world, that is the obvious, I would hope everyone starting a hobby would uinderstand this concept. BUT this doesnt mean you have to learn everything using basic equipment, it can be learned using better equipment and getting better results each time you learn something new...

True... you don't have to, but today's basic equipment is so advanced that unless you know why you need to upgrade, you probably don't really need to. The reason that you have received most of the answers that you have is because there are a number of us with a fair few years behind the lens, and we have all seen far too many people decide to run out and buy another piece of equipment because they thing it will improve their images. They are almost always disapointed. Just to put things in perspective, compare your current camera and kits lens to the 4x5 field camera that Ansel Adams used to make his iconic "Half Dome" image. The image quality that your kit is able to render compared to that which Adams used is many, many, MANY orders of magnitude better, so...