Legal advice.

[cailinp]

Over the weekend I went on a Bar sponsered boat cruise here. The bar had a photographer there taking photos like usual clubs do. I also had my camera and was having fun taking photos of my friends and other patrons. I chatted with the pro. photog for awhile but nothing was said about my photo taking. After looking at some of the photos and falling in love with many of the candid shots I am wondering if I can put them on my blog or flickr without any consent. What do you suggest I do?

 

[vtf]

IMO Ask the bar if ok, if they say no then seek a lawyer for clarification.

 

[KmH]

Over the weekend I went on a Bar sponsered boat cruise here. The bar had a photographer there taking photos like usual clubs do. I also had my camera and was having fun taking photos of my friends and other patrons. I chatted with the pro. photog for awhile but nothing was said about my photo taking. After looking at some of the photos and falling in love with many of the candid shots I am wondering if I can put them on my blog or flickr without any consent. What do you suggest I do?

A model release is not needed to post images of people on a personal web site.

People cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy when out in public (boat cruise).

If you were to post those images as a means of self promotion, you probably wouldn't need a model release either, because the photos were not made in a controlled way and it's not likely the people could be perceived as advocates or sponsors.

As always the reminder, online forums are not a good place to seek legal advice.

 

[ababysean]

why not? did other people have cameras? I'm sure they are putting them on facebook as we speak.

 

[cailinp]

All good points.

Keith, I know. I wouldn't take anything legal as concrete on here. Was more looking for a...what would you do type of answer.

 

[KmH]

I'm still trying to figure out if a bar is legally considered private or public... but if you're not selling them... there shouldn't be a problem.

If you're really paranoid about it though, just ask the owner or manager of the club. :sillysmi:

A bar is private property and the owner can prohibit photography if they choose to, but as long as the bar is open for business, the people in it are in public, and cannot have a reasonable expectation of pivacy.

 

[Aayria]

I'm still trying to figure out if a bar is legally considered private or public... but if you're not selling them... there shouldn't be a problem.

If you're really paranoid about it though, just ask the owner or manager of the club. :sillysmi:

A bar is private property and the owner can prohibit photography if they choose to, but as long as the bar is open for business, the people in it are in public, and cannot have a reasonable expectation of pivacy.

I think a "reasonable expectation of privacy" is a myth. My home is "private property" but with four children and a husband around, none of have a reasonable expectation of privacy here, either!

 

[vtf]

I think in the time this post has been going on you could've called the bar and ran it past them if theyre open. I just realized you're in Germany and US laws/culture may not apply.

 

[ifi]

I'm still trying to figure out if a bar is legally considered private or public... but if you're not selling them... there shouldn't be a problem.

If you're really paranoid about it though, just ask the owner or manager of the club. :sillysmi:

A bar is private property and the owner can prohibit photography if they choose to, but as long as the bar is open for business, the people in it are in public, and cannot have a reasonable expectation of pivacy.

I think a "reasonable expectation of privacy" is a myth. My home is "private property" but with four children and a husband around, none of have a reasonable expectation of privacy here, either!

 

[KmH]

I think in the time this post has been going on you could've called the bar and ran it past them if theyre open. I just realized you're in Germany and US laws/culture may not apply.

Good and very valid point, and I should have checked for that. Doh!

 

[KmH]

I'm still trying to figure out if a bar is legally considered private or public... but if you're not selling them... there shouldn't be a problem.

If you're really paranoid about it though, just ask the owner or manager of the club. :sillysmi:

A bar is private property and the owner can prohibit photography if they choose to, but as long as the bar is open for business, the people in it are in public, and cannot have a reasonable expectation of pivacy.

That's so confusing!

So as long as the bar's owner doesn't prohibit photography, I can take as many pictures as I want and do whatever I want with them as long as I'm not selling them commercially for ads or what have you?

You can sell them to whoever you want and you don't need permission from any of the people in the photos, as long as you sell them in small quantities. There is a point where selling a popular photo become distribution, which will kick-in the need for model release.

Where it gets sticky is when someone (or a business, like the bar owner for instance) buys one of those photos and wants to use it in an advertisement. At that point the entity that bought the image from you, would need the permission of any people in the photo for that use.

Advertising agencies know they need model releases, and usually expect the photographer to get releases signed at the time they make the photo(s). The local bar owner may not know that.

The key is how an image will be used and the circumstances under which the image was made.


Another key concept is that a model release protects two entities:

1. the model and or recognizable people in an image.
2. the publisher of that image.

The photographer is usually NOT the publisher of the image.

Model release law is not real cut and dried. It varies from state to state. States that have big entertainment and publishing industries, like New York and California, have much more complex model release statutes than states that don't.

So, you have to find out what is what wherever it is you are making the images.

 

[Village Idiot]

I'm still trying to figure out if a bar is legally considered private or public... but if you're not selling them... there shouldn't be a problem.

If you're really paranoid about it though, just ask the owner or manager of the club. :sillysmi:

A bar is private property and the owner can prohibit photography if they choose to, but as long as the bar is open for business, the people in it are in public, and cannot have a reasonable expectation of pivacy.

I think a "reasonable expectation of privacy" is a myth. My home is "private property" but with four children and a husband around, none of have a reasonable expectation of privacy here, either!

Holy ****! I can barely put up with two roommates that act like children. You're one of my many new heroes.