Leica advice ?

gsgary · Jun 13, 2012

My friend who has most Leicas made passed on the D-lux 5 for the Panasonic G2

Groupcaptainbonzo · Jun 13, 2012

The LX 5 and the D-Lux 5 are indeed similar, and yes they come from the same factory. BUT they are a long way away from being the same camera with a different badge. The firm ware is different, there are detail differences in the design. But you have to remember that art is probably the most subjective discipline on earth. And photography (once you start to consider and construct your images) is an art form. Subjectively the Leica "FEELS" different. (Don't think I am denigrating the LX 5 , Both are very good compact cameras both capable of excellent results). And it opens up a whole new ball game.
Most modern compacts are more than capable of producing excellent images, But do you see Rankin, Thein, Huff, or Salgardo pounding the pavements with a Cyber Shot 520? Not that it wouldn't take decent pics. It is just that the "Feel" of a top notch camera, and the edge that it gives the photographer is worth the extra thousand or so pounds.

View finder? I know just what you mean. if this camera has one huge failing, it is the lack of a built in view finder. and the add on looks and feels awful, the definition is none too hot either. And it also means that before you take a picture , you hve to spend some time "rebuilding" your camera, as it won't fit in the case with it on. AND you can't fit anything else (Back protector, Flash etc onto the camera while it is there. Not only that, but in bright weather you have to just hope for the best as you can see virtually nothing on the back display. But you do get used to it and find that while it is always a problem, if you want that camera (and personally, I do) then you put up with it.. Why a company of Leica's standing produce a product of this quality, for this market, and make a mistake of THAT magnitude , is way beyond me. AND they perpetuate this fault on many models...
But all cameras have good and bad points. You find the one that gets closest to what you want/can afford. And get on with it.

This came from a VERY unexpected source.

But for me he nails it. (even if it is a promo)

usayit · Jun 13, 2012

Groupcaptainbonzo said:
View finder? the definition is none too hot either. And it also means that before you take a picture

Its obvious you've never tried the LX5 (compared to the Dlux) and more importantly NOT even the Olympus VF2 EVF viewfinder. The VF2 has more resolution that most compact cameras with rear LCDs. Let's do some comparison (from dpreview):

Dlux 5 LCD = 460,000 dots
X2 = 230,000 dots
Canon EOS 1D-C = 1,040,000 dots
Nikon D4 = 921,000

drum.. roll

Olympus VF2 EVF = 1,440,000 dots

I've heard of the standard discussions of the disadvantages of EVF versus optical (gap is pretty much close) but never have I heard anyone say... its not enough resolution. Its pretty amazing when you consider the display inside is the size of a postage stamp.

This came from a VERY unexpected source.

But for me he nails it. (even if it is a promo)

Where have you been? Seal has been an official Leica speaker since before the M8 was even released many years ago. Its not like he suddenly became swayed by the awesomeness of Leica and fell physically in love... and became the "unexpected source". There was a thread on another forum back then of someone showing pictures of an M8 prior to the release date. After much back and forth, the poster revealed himself to the the artist, Seal. I like him and some of his photographs but I to make him the deciding factor of a purchase is kinda... well... I'll just say, you need to do more research.

PS> LX's and Dlux are physically the same.... (yes I know 1st hand) and I am skeptical when anyone speaks to Leica as this magical brand of elevated above all. If you are swayed by the music famous with Leica, I'm actually more impressed with Lenny Kravitz. Photos are pretty good and he doesn't go around marketing (or even revealing) the camera he uses.

Groupcaptainbonzo · Jun 14, 2012

OK. Let's start by reading my last post ... ... OK? Done that? right.

1. why is it obvious that I have never used an LX 5? Would you pay £750 for a camera when you can get "An identical" one for half that? I did what anyone else would have done. I spent a little time with both, and based upon my own opinions and observations, I made MY decision. It might be a different opinion to yours. But it is still a valid one.

The lack of definition is what I have found in the attached add on viewfinder, which if you read it ,is what I was talking about at the time. And if you have ever used one, it would be inescapable that this is one of its many failings, (SO.. It is OBVIOUS that YOU have never used one... (Tongue in cheek) )
Why is it more important that I have never used a VF2 Olympus viewfinder... who was talking about that anyway (Please try to keep up. and on topic). and why would I want to.. it may fit, but if I am buying Leica kit. Surely I would want to put Leica kit on it... anyway the wole point of the paragraph is that a previous post had bemoaned the absence of a viewfinder. This I was agreeing with and thought that (to stave off an over pedantic reply about "there is an add on view finder) I thought that I would cover this ground. And in my opinion the Leica EVF for the D-Lux 5 is not its strongest selling point...

What was unexpected about Seal "Nailing it" is not that he was a Leica spokes person being paid by Leica , who said how good Leica are (Even I am not that naiev). It was that Seal would have got the difference right in the context of how a person makes a decision. because it is unusual that I agree with promo videos, because they are normally more prosaic than that. RThe thought that Seal saying something on an official Promo vid, is in any way a deciding factor would be laughable, if it wasn't such an insult to my intelligence. (Just so you know , I don't read the SUN and I don't watch "Soaps" or reality TV either)

And in closing. If you look up the Deffinition of "The Same" you will find that when comparing the LX and the D-Lux this deffinition is not met...

Anything else I can help you with?

Groupcaptainbonzo · Jun 14, 2012

Solarflare said:
How exactly are we able to inform you about a camera that hasnt been released yet ?

Please read the post before answering

usayit · Jun 14, 2012

Yo!!!!!!! stop and listen for a second. Stop being the know-it-all.... and being so defensive.

I am a Micro 4/3 Shooter .. G1, E-PL1, and OMD. I own a VF2.. I use it quite frequently. Its paired with.. hmm let see... 14, 20, 45, 14-24, 14-50, 45-200, and recently 100-300. The VF2 helps tremendously with the about 50 or so legacy lenses I have in my collection. Its also on topic. If you read the reviews they actually state the EVF is a rebrand job of the Olympus VF2. Heck... look at the first pic in this review:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/...an-leica-still-win-us-over-with-their-charms/

You see what Steve Huff attached to the X2???? AN OLYMPUS VF2.

quoted from the blog:
"But remember that the Olympus VF-2 is the same exact EVF that Leica sells for $575 except that it says Olympus instead of the big LEICA letters on the Leica version and it may have a little bit of a different shape up top..more rounded. "

I am also a Leica shooter.... and not the Panasonic rebrand ones. M3, M8, M9, with about 10 lenses from the 12mm Heliar to the 50mm f/1 noctilux.

I also own an LX3 after comparison to the Dlux leica version. I had two demo units for an entire week. My conclusion... They are essentially the same. I bought the LX3 to pass on the packaged software (I already had it with my Leica) and warranty which is the only major difference. Leica did the same for the next version of the Dlux.

I am also quite connected in retail... have access to more equipment than most here (used to be a Canon shooter).... and I am trying to offering you a perspective.

SO yes... I know exactly what you are talking but unlike you .. I know FIRST HAND.

Sheesh.

fjrabon · Jun 14, 2012

I mean I think we have all given up long ago trying to refute his point that "for those who say it's a panasonic, it is in all senses a TRUE LEICA!" The firmware is so marginally different as to be comical and it doesn't have the grip area that the LX5 has (which if anything the grip area was viewed as an improvement by people who switched from an LX3 to an LX5). Somehow those two things are enough to take something from being a mere Panasonic to the true pinnacle of cameradom, a LEICA. The fact that the pictures that come out of it are virtually identical CANNOT be a major factor in this decision. Of course it's not the red dot making the $800 difference in the two cameras.

And this is obviously germane to the question the OP asked, because if he thinks there's that big of a difference between the DLux5 and the LX5, then he'll probably feel the same about all the new tiny frame, no viewfinder Leicas. So, sure OP, you'll love the X2.

OP, I'm really not sure what you wanted here. You asked about cameras, but you essentially keep saying that what you value are completely intangible aspects of the cameras that nobody but you can accurately judge.

nickzou · Jun 14, 2012

usayit said:
Yo!!!!!!! stop and listen for a second. Stop being the know-it-all.... and being so defensive.

I am a Micro 4/3 Shooter .. G1, E-PL1, and OMD. I own a VF2.. I use it quite frequently. Its paired with.. hmm let see... 14, 20, 45, 14-24, 14-50, 45-200, and recently 100-300. The VF2 helps tremendously with the about 50 or so legacy lenses I have in my collection. Its also on topic. If you read the reviews they actually state the EVF is a rebrand job of the Olympus VF2. Heck... look at the first pic in this review:

The Leica X2 Camera Review – Can Leica still win us over with their charms? | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

You see what Steve Huff attached to the X2???? AN OLYMPUS VF2.

quoted from the blog:
"But remember that the Olympus VF-2 is the same exact EVF that Leica sells for $575 except that it says Olympus instead of the big LEICA letters on the Leica version and it may have a little bit of a different shape up top..more rounded. "

I am also a Leica shooter.... and not the Panasonic rebrand ones. M3, M8, M9, with about 10 lenses from the 12mm Heliar to the 50mm f/1 noctilux.

I also own an LX3 after comparison to the Dlux leica version. I had two demo units for an entire week. My conclusion... They are essentially the same. I bought the LX3 to pass on the packaged software (I already had it with my Leica) and warranty which is the only major difference. Leica did the same for the next version of the Dlux.

I am also quite connected in retail... have access to more equipment than most here (used to be a Canon shooter).... and I am trying to offering you a perspective.

SO yes... I know exactly what you are talking but unlike you .. I know FIRST HAND.

Sheesh.