Let's talk metering related to subject color in the same lighting.

[GrantH]

I've been covering a lot of car events whether it be shows, races, or just local meets and while I can figure out how to come out with a good image...it takes a couple tries to dial everything in. My problem comes with shooting different colors of cars in the same lighting. We all know all cars are different in some form and most obvious would be color. This past weekend I shot a 1/2 mile shootout and had trouble with capturing certain cars back to back of one another. For example, I would use either eval or spot meter and would get a perfectly exposed red car and then shoot and get a blown out silver car. I shot in Av for a while and got what I thought was a good setting that I could drop a couple notches to expose it perfectly in post. Switched over to Manual and nothing was consistent.

Anyways, can someone try and explain how to go about switches settings, or a general rule when metering for cars at a show? I figured I could meter the grass and get fairly consistent results but blacks were then shadows/really dark where red and blues were perfect.

 

[Derrel]

Canon Rebel cameras, like most Canon cameras, are entirely color-blind,and have NO IDEA what the color of any subject actually "is". Around 20 years ago, Nikon figured out how to use Red,Green, Blue color analysis (RGB), along with reflectivity VALUE readings, to determine the right exposure. For example, a large expanse of sheet metal....is that metal painted pure WHITE, or silver, or BLACK? Your Rebel does not have a clue. MY own experience, and that kf my friend Steve, is that the various Rebel models have light metering that is as you describe...somewhat erratic, somewhat shall we say "variable" in its nature.

Metering off of the grass is an OLD-SCHOOL technique...I grew up using that method myself!!! The good thing for you is that you've already noticed/observed how it handles black, red, and blue cars. So...perhaps you could try and refine your method for color-specific results that are pleasing; you already KNOW how it works to meter the grass and use that as your "neutral" metering subject...the adjustments either "Plus" or "Minus" exposure settings are going to be relatively consistent....

 

[GrantH]

Canon Rebel cameras, like most Canon cameras, are entirely color-blind,and have NO IDEA what the color of any subject actually "is". Around 20 years ago, Nikon figured out how to use Red,Green, Blue color analysis (RGB), along with reflectivity VALUE readings, to determine the right exposure. For example, a large expanse of sheet metal....is that metal painted pure WHITE, or silver, or BLACK? Your Rebel does not have a clue. MY own experience, and that kf my friend Steve, is that the various Rebel models have light metering that is as you describe...somewhat erratic, somewhat shall we say "variable" in its nature.

Metering off of the grass is an OLD-SCHOOL technique...I grew up using that method myself!!! The good thing for you is that you've already noticed/observed how it handles black, red, and blue cars. So...perhaps you could try and refine your method for color-specific results that are pleasing; you already KNOW how it works to meter the grass and use that as your "neutral" metering subject...the adjustments either "Plus" or "Minus" exposure settings are going to be relatively consistent....

That was my understanding as well, thought it was erratic at best (even on the 7D) when the cars were actually racing. Also, in sunlight the grass may work...but what about when the sun starts to drop? Is the a trick for that time period? I've used tires at times, as well as the wheels if not chromed or fully polished....just looking for any tips or material I may can read about this.

 

[Derrel]

Using "another item or object" to take a light meter reading from is called "substitution metering". Green grass is a common substitute. So is a real gray card. One easy item to get is an incident light meter, which reads the light that is FALLING UPON the scene, as opposed to light that is being reflected BY objects. Using a gray card is a way to "neutralize" the light readings, so that a reflected light meter can give a reading that is, for the most part, CLOSE to what an incident light meter would provide.

The fact that you have observed the light metering "issues" your Rebel suffers from is a huge,positive step, and speaks well for your powers of observation AND your desire for high-quaslity results!!!! I am impressed that you've noticed and are trying to find solutions!

 

[GrantH]

The substitution route is probably easiest/best for fast moving objects/panning shots, no? Car shows and feature type images would benefit from a meter or gray card as they are static objects.

 

[tirediron]

I think what I would be inclined to do is head down to a local car lot on a Sunday and practice. Start with your baseline reading, either off of grass, a gray card, the palm of your hand or some other constant, and then go around to the different colour cars and figure out what works best for each one. That should give you a reasonably accurate guideline as to where you need to go from '0' for good exposure for a given colour.

(I does love me my Nikon colour-aware metering!! I does indeed!)

 

[Big Mike]

My problem comes with shooting different colors of cars in the same lighting.

If your lighting doesn't change, then your exposure doesn't need to change. In other words...rather than use an auto mode (including the priority modes), use manual mode.
When you use any of the auto modes, the camera is re-metering every time you press the shutter release button. And because the camera uses a reflected light meter, it always bases the exposure value on the reflectivity of the scene. So if your scene/subject changes in tone/color (reflectivity), your camera's metering will likely change as well.

But the trick to good exposure, is having the correct settings for the 'incident' light...the light that is falling onto the scene, not the light that is reflecting off of it.
And once you get to proper settings, you can essentially lock them in by using manual exposure mode. Then you can go from one subject to the next...and if your lighting doesn't change, your exposure settings don't need to change.

As mentioned, a grey card can help you get settings for proper exposure.
How to use a Grey Card ~ Mike Hodson Photography

 

[GrantH]

My problem comes with shooting different colors of cars in the same lighting.

If your lighting doesn't change, then your exposure doesn't need to change. In other words...rather than use an auto mode (including the priority modes), use manual mode.
When you use any of the auto modes, the camera is re-metering every time you press the shutter release button. And because the camera uses a reflected light meter, it always bases the exposure value on the reflectivity of the scene. So if your scene/subject changes in tone/color (reflectivity), your camera's metering will likely change as well.

But the trick to good exposure, is having the correct settings for the 'incident' light...the light that is falling onto the scene, not the light that is reflecting off of it.
And once you get to proper settings, you can essentially lock them in by using manual exposure mode. Then you can go from one subject to the next...and if your lighting doesn't change, your exposure settings don't need to change.

As mentioned, a grey card can help you get settings for proper exposure.
How to use a Grey Card ~ Mike Hodson Photography

I guess saying my lighting doesn't change is a bit misleading. For example, a car show, you shoot car after car in the same weather/climate/bright sunny day but the angle of light does change. Therefore, what I have noticed, is a constant need for slight adjustment each photo. I can say I have no done this adjustment enough to figure it out, but the need is indeed there. I guess I am just getting to a point where I want the best image in camera I can get, each frame I shoot. I'm wanting more than just "show coverage", I want something I can show off and start to edit or shoot in my own style. There is more to learn now than ever before.

 

[Big Mike]

I guess saying my lighting doesn't change is a bit misleading. For example, a car show, you shoot car after car in the same weather/climate/bright sunny day but the angle of light does change. Therefore, what I have noticed, is a constant need for slight adjustment each photo.

I thought as much, but shooting in manual is still the best way to go IMO. You can still make adjustments when you need to, but you are still avoiding the problem that is inherent with every auto mode...which is that your exposure settings will change (on their own) if the reflectivity of the scene changes. For example, you could be using Av mode and get your exposure perfect, but then you shift 6" to the left and get slightly different reflections off of the car...and now the camera changes your exposure, maybe drastically. In manual mode, the exposure settings won't change unless you purposely change them.
You may still need to do test shots, but once you learn to get it right, your shots will be consistent and consistently better.

 

[Mike_E]

Asm far as the color of a subject goes, give this a look It's old but nothing has changed.

3D Contrast Ver 2 - YouTube

What you are specifically after is towards the end but watch the whole thing anyway.

 

[GrantH]

Asm far as the color of a subject goes, give this a look It's old but nothing has changed.

3D Contrast Ver 2 - YouTube

What you are specifically after is towards the end but watch the whole thing anyway.

Thanks for that. Something about it is just hard to accept, and its probably the whole "meter white the same as black as the same as red" deal. Seeing different than the tool you use can be a challenge; a fun challenge.

 

[Mike_E]

Asm far as the color of a subject goes, give this a look It's old but nothing has changed.

3D Contrast Ver 2 - YouTube

What you are specifically after is towards the end but watch the whole thing anyway.

Thanks for that. Something about it is just hard to accept, and its probably the whole "meter white the same as black as the same as red" deal. Seeing different than the tool you use can be a challenge; a fun challenge.

The hard part about seeing is to accept what something is without trying to make it conform to what you want it to be.

It doesn't matter what color something is as long as the amount of energy (in light) striking the sensor/film is of sufficient quantity to meet it's needs. -remembering that black isn't a color but rather a lack of light-

So, red, green, blue or white (being a mixture of all of them) each have a tone -a range of acceptable intensity. 18% grey is the tone with which cameras are 'tuned' but you can also have 18% red or blue or green or any combination of those. Dean Collins talked about True Tonality and what he meant by this was that the light falling upon the subject was of proper quantity to illuminate it to 18% (at whatever f stop you wanted).

After achieving this you can show the subject for whatever it 'truly' is as opposed to whatever you think it is. Red becomes red, blue becomes blue and black is black.

Now, having gotten the exposure correct you still have to be concerned with the reflective index of your subject but this is a matter for the lights quality (hard to soft) to illustrate.

If you want a correct exposure then it's best to just walk over and take an incident reading. Or at the very least turn around 180 degrees and take an incident reading from behind you (matrix) so long as you and your subject are in the same basic light and there isn't a largish reflective surface behind you to skew your reading.

Spot metering only works for placing shadows or highlights within the dynamic range of your medium.

HTH

mike

 

[Derrel]

Here. Sekonic L-358 Flash Master Meter - Silver 401-358 B&H Photo

 

[GrantH]

If you want a correct exposure then it's best to just walk over and take an incident reading. Or at the very least turn around 180 degrees and take an incident reading from behind you (matrix) so long as you and your subject are in the same basic light and there isn't a largish reflective surface behind you to skew your reading.

mike

I wondered about the turning around idea...glad to know it could work if in a bind.

@Derrel - That is probably my next purchase rather than the 50 1.4 but having just bought the 7D & 17-40L combo...Money is a little short right now haha. Thanks for the recommendation though!