Looking for some constructive criticism..... Portrait Photography

The_Traveler · Sep 2, 2011

If you are new to PPing, LR3 may be a less expensive way to eget into it. Besides the image managment fucntions, it has a significant editing capability and, imo, a bit easier to learn than PS.

Try a free DL (LR is on sale for a few more days I understand.)

subscuck · Sep 2, 2011

duck411 said:
So.... I'll jump into CS5 with lots of tutorials. I wasn't aware that's what Lightroom was..... I was originally just going to invest in it for the purpose of tweaking exposures.

Skip the tuts for a while and get a book. Tuts are very hit or miss. On this, and other fora, you often see people remark that they've been looking at tuts for x weeks or x months and still aren't getting a handle on PPing. That's because PPing, like photography, has a learning curve that requires knowing the fundamentals before you can really start growing and achieving the results you want. A good book will take you through the fundamentals in a linear, progressive mode. Once you have the basics down, tuts are fine for learning certain "advanced" techniques and such. A good book next to you at the computer will have you understanding and using CS5 productively in an afternoon or two. Tuts can take weeks or months to achieve half as much. If you don't know what you need to know, how are you going to find a tut to teach you what you need to know?

I would start here:

Amazon.com: The Adobe Photoshop CS5 Book for Digital Photographers (Voices That Matter) (9780321703569): Scott Kelby: Books

I now turn this over to Keith to post his preferred links.

(They are all very good, useful links)

KmH · Sep 2, 2011

Lightroom is an incomplete editing solution, which is in part why it costs less than CS5.

There are many things that can be done in CS5 that Lightroom cannot do. Which is why so many finish their editing in CS5, regardless if they use Camera Raw or Lightroom to make the initial edits.

MTVision · Sep 2, 2011

subscuck said:
Skip the tuts for a while and get a book. Tuts are very hit or miss. On this, and other fora, you often see people remark that they've been looking at tuts for x weeks or x months and still aren't getting a handle on PPing. That's because PPing, like photography, has a learning curve that requires knowing the fundamentals before you can really start growing and achieving the results you want. A good book will take you through the fundamentals in a linear, progressive mode. Once you have the basics down, tuts are fine for learning certain "advanced" techniques and such. A good book next to you at the computer will have you understanding and using CS5 productively in an afternoon or two. Tuts can take weeks or months to achieve half as much. If you don't know what you need to know, how are you going to find a tut to teach you what you need to know?

I would start here:

Amazon.com: The Adobe Photoshop CS5 Book for Digital Photographers (Voices That Matter) (9780321703569): Scott Kelby: Books

I now turn this over to Keith to post his preferred links. (They are all very good, useful links)

I just bought Photoshop and CS5 as well as the above book.
I've never used Lightroom before so I can't give an opinion on it but if you can afford CS5 I'd go for that over lightroom.

Hoodat Whatzit · Sep 2, 2011

KmH said:
Why CS5 and Lightroom?

The Camera Raw that comes with CS5 is the same edit rendering engine, ACR 6, used by Lightroom's editing feature, the Develope module.

Lightroom's primary function is as a database mangement application. Lightroom is intended for photographers that consistantly make, and need to monitize, a lot of images that occupy a substantial database.

CS5 also includes Bridge, a image browser that has many image file management features. Bridge is designed to work with many of Adobe's other software applications.

Though not a database management application, Bridge is more than adequete for most amateur, advanced amateur, and retail photographers.

However, it's your money.

This peaks my interest. I have the CS5 Master Collection since I'm fortunate enough to be able to benefit from educator discounts. I do use Premiere and Dreamweaver and Soundbooth and knew that eventually I would be wanting to make use of Photoshop for more than quick fixes. Bridge works and works well but recently I've been thinking about adding Lightroom to my digital toolbox.

While I am not a professional photographer and have no plans to become a professional, I am finding that the idea of Lightroom's database management features is something that would make my life a whole lot easier. I'm taking more and more pictures as I am learning myself and I take tons of what most of the members here would call snapshots for my school and family (yes, I am trying to up my game but sometimes you don't need art you just need an image... fine if anyone disagrees but all I'll say is you try taking artistic photos of an elementary school "dance" when you are also the assistant principal. Maybe I'll get there someday but for now I'm just happy to exit the cafeteria in one piece.). Anyway... when you have lots of pictures you want to keep track of isn't Lightroom designed to do exactly that? At least in part? In looking at it's features, I'd been thinking that I would only use it for the most minor of image adjustments or perhaps load it on my personal laptop as well to do quick adjustments to photos I take at school. I want to learn Photoshop proper for the majority of my editing needs.

Not only do I have all my own photos to worry about.. I've become sort of the keeper of my family's digital photos. I have several family members who would never see their photos anywhere except the back of their digital point and shoot if I didn't carry my laptop, an external harddrive and a cd burner with me to family functions. :lol:

I may not need to monitize all these photos but it would be nice to be able to keep them organized. In my case, the extra money isn't all that much in the long run (educator discounts again) especially when you consider what photography as a hobby does to your sense of the relative cost of things.

Plus Lightroom will integrate with CS5 but are there other image management/database programs out there that work just as well or better if that's all you want?

Hoodat Whatzit

subscuck · Sep 2, 2011

^ You are correct in your assumptions about LR. Where it excels is image management and things like batch processing. This is what Adobe designed it for. It was never designed/intended as a stand alone image editing engine. It was designed as a complimenting program for your image editing software. In addition, it's processing is destructive, unlike CSx and Elements which use layers for non destructive editing. Somewhere along the lines people got it into their heads that LR is "one stop shopping for all of your editing needs". It's editing capability is limited compared to CSx, but it can be very useful for pros who need quick, easy access to files, or batch processing for wb adjustment, exposure adjustments, etc. From there, final editing is done in CSx or Elements (or your software of choice). In your situation, already having CS5, LR may be a useful addition to your workflow. Download the free trial and see for yourself if it fits in well. FWIW, LR and CS5 use the same version of Adobe Camera Raw.

oldmacman · Sep 2, 2011

Seems I am late to this party, but I like the look of number two. It has the best colour of the three and good separation from the background so details are not lost.

duck411 · Sep 2, 2011

subscuck said:
^ You are correct in your assumptions about LR. Where it excels is image management and things like batch processing. This is what Adobe designed it for. It was never designed/intended as a stand alone image editing engine. It was designed as a complimenting program for your image editing software. In addition, it's processing is destructive, unlike CSx and Elements which use layers for non destructive editing. Somewhere along the lines people got it into their heads that LR is "one stop shopping for all of your editing needs". It's editing capability is limited compared to CSx, but it can be very useful for pros who need quick, easy access to files, or batch processing for wb adjustment, exposure adjustments, etc. From there, final editing is done in CSx or Elements (or your software of choice). In your situation, already having CS5, LR may be a useful addition to your workflow. Download the free trial and see for yourself if it fits in well. FWIW, LR and CS5 use the same version of Adobe Camera Raw.

The batch processing was a HUGE selling point for me.

ClickAddict · Sep 2, 2011

subscuck said:
^ You are correct in your assumptions about LR. Where it excels is image management and things like batch processing. This is what Adobe designed it for. It was never designed/intended as a stand alone image editing engine. It was designed as a complimenting program for your image editing software. In addition, it's processing is destructive, unlike CSx and Elements which use layers for non destructive editing. Somewhere along the lines people got it into their heads that LR is "one stop shopping for all of your editing needs". It's editing capability is limited compared to CSx, but it can be very useful for pros who need quick, easy access to files, or batch processing for wb adjustment, exposure adjustments, etc. From there, final editing is done in CSx or Elements (or your software of choice). In your situation, already having CS5, LR may be a useful addition to your workflow. Download the free trial and see for yourself if it fits in well. FWIW, LR and CS5 use the same version of Adobe Camera Raw.

I'm fairly new to LR3 but I believe this is somewhat misleading. If you make changes in LR and send that file to PS, I do believe it creates a Tiff or something and then the changes are embedded and thus, yes, destructive. But if you only use LR3 to edit and export (less tools than Ps but it does have some), any edits you do are not saved onto the file itself but as metadata in another file. This gets applied when printing or exporting, but the originals remain untouched in their own folder and can easily be obtained.

manaheim · Sep 3, 2011

I liked cooked skin, esp. when crispy. num num num... delicious!

Agree with everything Traveler said... also the background for #1 is kinda unpleasant and distractingly so.

KmH · Sep 3, 2011

Hoodat Whatzit said:
...... but are there other image management/database programs out there that work just as well or better if that's all you want?

Hoodat Whatzit

Absolutely.

First, I highly recommend you read and get for reference: The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers

The book will coverusing both Lightroom and Bridge/ACR for image management

Other cataloging applications you can look at are: Expression Media, Extensis Portfolio, idImager, and iMatch (PC only).

There are also downloaders that can be useful: ImageingesterPro, PhotoMechanic, and Downloader Pro.

bazooka · Sep 3, 2011

IMO, the CS5 book referred to above is weak in content. I don't think I learned anything from reading through it that I couldn't have learned in a CS5 getting started tutorial I could probably find on a blog somewhere. It covers some gimmicky stuff, shows some really bad HDR processing techniques (heck, the image of the boat on the front cover has major artifacting in the reeds in the background if I remember correctly), etc. You would be much better off spending that money on a month's subscription at lynda.com and grabbing the Deke McClelland's CS5 tutorial. It is possible to use the video helper plugin for firefox to save the videos if that sort of thing doesn't bother you. Not saying you should, just saying "it's possible". You might be able to get through them in a month depending on how much free time you have, but there are hours and hours worth and they are incredible, and he's a fairly entertaining character. I even found myself laughing out loud a few times.

KmH · Sep 3, 2011

Scott Kelby laughs all the way to the bank. His books are very popular, but I agrees he leaves out a lot of the why and his books are really just collections of short tutorials.

But, I have to admit I have learned some worthwhile techniques from his books.

I also recommend Martin Evening, Tim Gray, Bruce Fraser, and Jeff Schewe .

subscuck · Sep 3, 2011

bazooka said:
IMO, the CS5 book referred to above is weak in content. I don't think I learned anything from reading through it that I couldn't have learned in a CS5 getting started tutorial I could probably find on a blog somewhere. It covers some gimmicky stuff, shows some really bad HDR processing techniques (heck, the image of the boat on the front cover has major artifacting in the reeds in the background if I remember correctly), etc. You would be much better off spending that money on a month's subscription at lynda.com and grabbing the Deke McClelland's CS5 tutorial. It is possible to use the video helper plugin for firefox to save the videos if that sort of thing doesn't bother you. Not saying you should, just saying "it's possible". You might be able to get through them in a month depending on how much free time you have, but there are hours and hours worth and they are incredible, and he's a fairly entertaining character. I even found myself laughing out loud a few times.

That's a matter of opinion. Kelby never claims his series of CSx, LR and Elements books are a complete resource. They're written to give the person with zero PPing knowledge a good place to start. It's been a while since I've read one, but I seem to recall him stating as much throughout the books. Certainly there have been far more detailed books written, but many of them presuppose you have the fundamentals down. A lot of people say "Understanding Exposure" is a crap book, yet a lot of people praise it for the leg up it gave them in getting thru the learning curve. No book ever written about photography will be "right" for everyone, but some are "right" for a large number of people. Kelby and Peterson fill that niche.

mjhoward · Sep 3, 2011

Since we are now on the topic of photo editing/batch processing, I was wondering if you were also considering getting a photo printer in the future? The reason I ask is that Canon is currently running $200 rebates on the PIXMA Pro9000 printers. I just got one and it was only $149 after mail in rebate... a printer that normally sells for $449. Well, the printer is just fantastic. I made a 13x19 print on it last night and it prints better than most labs around here. Point is... to my surprise, the printer also came with Photoshop Elements 8 and Bridge CS4 for FREE! I was like wha!??! It is basically a pretty stripped down version of PS but it does have a lot of the tools I want to use like Dodge, Burn, Liquify, and all the other Color/Saturation adjustments. It has quite a few other tools too but I just couldn't believe it came with that printer for free, especially after being marked down so heavily to begin with.