Loss leaders and why shooting for free has made me a lot of money!

[MSnowy]

That's a nice thing to do for the veterans and an interesting way of marketing yourself. How many of these shoots do you do a year? I think you would be able to write these as a business expense on your taxes under donations or even a loss.

Thanks Mike. It really varies; some years it's 30-40, some only half of that. I usually advertise it in the spring of each year. As far as the expense, I'll be honest. That didn't occur to me. I freely admit that I'm a HORRIBLE businessman. My book-keeping is atrocious, my paperwork is all over the place... I will have to talk to my bean counter about that. I wonder if the resultant sales would matter or not?

What does everyone on here say about running a professional photography business "photography business is 10% photography 90% business, Sales might not be affected but profits will. A good accountant is one of the most important parts of running a successful business of any type.

 

[pixmedic]

if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file. Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints. You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.

Obviously it's a working setup since you're getting the print sales and some extra work. But it's just a promotion. "Free sitting! No minimum purchase!"

you have missed the entire premise of John's venture.
he is providing a service to veterans. he doesnt push for any sales, and free is still free regardless of the medium provided.
the whole point of this thread was to show that sometimes even providing a free service can have a windfall.
hes not just "eating a $2 print"..a common misconception with people that dont understand photography or business.
hes donating quite a bit of time, effort, and expertise into this project. John also helps out with the wounded warriors.

im amazed, and even appalled, that you could take something benevolent like John's veteran project, which he has done free for years, and spin it into a cheap
wal-mart photo studio money grab...

an excerpt from johns website concerning the project...

"This is a personal project I have undertaken to document the many faces of Canada’s Veterans. My goal is to create portraits of as many Canadian Veterans, from the Army, Air Force, Navy, Merchant Navy and Civil Defense, both serving and retired as I can.
At this time I have no set goal for the project, other than to create the portraits. If you are a Veteran, or know one, and would like a free 8×10 portrait, please contact me to arrange a session. There is absolutely no obligation and no attempt will be made to sell you anything. The images will be made available to organizations and causes which support the rights and advancement of Canadian Veterans."

anyone wishing to find out more, or knows a Canadian vet that might be interested in a portrait, you can get all the information you need from John's page.
http://www.johnsphotography.ca/index.php/veterans-portrait-project/

 

[MSnowy]

I

if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file. Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints. You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.

Obviously it's a working setup since you're getting the print sales and some extra work. But it's just a promotion. "Free sitting! No minimum purchase!"

you have missed the entire premise of John's venture.
he is providing a service to veterans. he doesnt push for any sales, and free is still free regardless of the medium provided.
the whole point of this thread was to show that sometimes even providing a free service can have a windfall.
hes not just "eating a $2 print"..a common misconception with people that dont understand photography or business.
hes donating quite a bit of time, effort, and expertise into this project. John also helps out with the wounded warriors.

im amazed, and even appalled, that you could take something benevolent like John's veteran project, which he has done free for years, and spin it into a cheap
wal-mart photo studio money grab...

an excerpt from johns website concerning the project...

"This is a personal project I have undertaken to document the many faces of Canada’s Veterans. My goal is to create portraits of as many Canadian Veterans, from the Army, Air Force, Navy, Merchant Navy and Civil Defense, both serving and retired as I can.
At this time I have no set goal for the project, other than to create the portraits. If you are a Veteran, or know one, and would like a free 8×10 portrait, please contact me to arrange a session. There is absolutely no obligation and no attempt will be made to sell you anything. The images will be made available to organizations and causes which support the rights and advancement of Canadian Veterans."

anyone wishing to find out more, or knows a Canadian vet that might be interested in a portrait, you can get all the information you need from John's page.
http://www.johnsphotography.ca/index.php/veterans-portrait-project/

I agree with you that John is doing a wonderful thing but that's no excuse for breaking the forum rules buy making a personal attack on the poster.

 

[pixmedic]

I

if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file. Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints. You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.

Obviously it's a working setup since you're getting the print sales and some extra work. But it's just a promotion. "Free sitting! No minimum purchase!"

you have missed the entire premise of John's venture.
he is providing a service to veterans. he doesnt push for any sales, and free is still free regardless of the medium provided.
the whole point of this thread was to show that sometimes even providing a free service can have a windfall.
hes not just "eating a $2 print"..a common misconception with people that dont understand photography or business.
hes donating quite a bit of time, effort, and expertise into this project. John also helps out with the wounded warriors.

im amazed, and even appalled, that you could take something benevolent like John's veteran project, which he has done free for years, and spin it into a cheap
wal-mart photo studio money grab...

an excerpt from johns website concerning the project...

"This is a personal project I have undertaken to document the many faces of Canada’s Veterans. My goal is to create portraits of as many Canadian Veterans, from the Army, Air Force, Navy, Merchant Navy and Civil Defense, both serving and retired as I can.
At this time I have no set goal for the project, other than to create the portraits. If you are a Veteran, or know one, and would like a free 8×10 portrait, please contact me to arrange a session. There is absolutely no obligation and no attempt will be made to sell you anything. The images will be made available to organizations and causes which support the rights and advancement of Canadian Veterans."

anyone wishing to find out more, or knows a Canadian vet that might be interested in a portrait, you can get all the information you need from John's page.
http://www.johnsphotography.ca/index.php/veterans-portrait-project/

I agree with you that John is doing a wonderful thing but that's no excuse for breaking the forum rules buy making a personal attack on the poster.

i disagree that an actual personal attack was made. just an opinion given. i certainly didnt call him any names.

 

[table1349]

I

if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file. Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints. You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.

Obviously it's a working setup since you're getting the print sales and some extra work. But it's just a promotion. "Free sitting! No minimum purchase!"

you have missed the entire premise of John's venture.
he is providing a service to veterans. he doesnt push for any sales, and free is still free regardless of the medium provided.
the whole point of this thread was to show that sometimes even providing a free service can have a windfall.
hes not just "eating a $2 print"..a common misconception with people that dont understand photography or business.
hes donating quite a bit of time, effort, and expertise into this project. John also helps out with the wounded warriors.

im amazed, and even appalled, that you could take something benevolent like John's veteran project, which he has done free for years, and spin it into a cheap
wal-mart photo studio money grab...

an excerpt from johns website concerning the project...

"This is a personal project I have undertaken to document the many faces of Canada’s Veterans. My goal is to create portraits of as many Canadian Veterans, from the Army, Air Force, Navy, Merchant Navy and Civil Defense, both serving and retired as I can.
At this time I have no set goal for the project, other than to create the portraits. If you are a Veteran, or know one, and would like a free 8×10 portrait, please contact me to arrange a session. There is absolutely no obligation and no attempt will be made to sell you anything. The images will be made available to organizations and causes which support the rights and advancement of Canadian Veterans."

anyone wishing to find out more, or knows a Canadian vet that might be interested in a portrait, you can get all the information you need from John's page.
http://www.johnsphotography.ca/index.php/veterans-portrait-project/

I agree with you that John is doing a wonderful thing but that's no excuse for breaking the forum rules buy making a personal attack on the poster.

DeJa Vue

 

[tirediron]

if you were really doing it for "free", you'd give them the digital file. Many togs do free portrait sessions with the money coming from prints. You're just eating the $2 cost of one print.

Obviously it's a working setup since you're getting the print sales and some extra work. But it's just a promotion. "Free sitting! No minimum purchase!"

Ummm... wow? I didn't expect the thread to go this way... Just to clarify: If they ask, I will give them the digital file, in fact that was how I originally started the project, but there was almost no interest. Since I've switched to prints, exactly ONE person has asked for the digital file, and it was sent to them in full-resolution, unwatermarked format, cropped for 8x10 printing.

In one case, I went to the home of a WWII Veteran who had sat for me, because he wanted family portraits. On his mantle I noticed his original WWII induction photo in a 3 1/2 x5 twin frame beside the a screen-captured home ink-jet print of an image from his session's proof gallery, complete with my watermark. I didn't say anything, I simply sent the file to the lab and presented him with a properly printed version, FREE OF CHARGE.

The majority (probably 60-70%) of the people who sit for this are older; 60, 70s and up. I am actively targeting WWII and Korean Veterans for the simple reason that they're getting fewer and fewer every day. I've done lots of younger Veterans too, but my main focus is older Veterans.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that this has turned into a money-maker, but I believe that has happened because the clients like the product. I will keep doing this as long as I can, regardless of how much or little money it makes. There is a personal motivation behind this, but it has NOTHING to do with money.

 

[jake337]

This is great.

I've been contemplating doing something similar with local artist. I really need to start.

 

[table1349]

Iron I know the thread is a bit old, and I origional though of posting this in the Articles of Interest forum, but thought it appropriate in your thread.
I Never Shoot Photos for Free, But This is Why I Did

Hope you don't mind.

 

[tirediron]

Thanks Gryph! That's a great article, and (I think) supports what I'm saying in my OP.