Low light/Noise/ISO/without flash

[BrittaM]

I have been taking some indoor (low light) event photos lately where a flash is not appropriate. I have tried several different settings for ISO, Shutter, ap, etc. but my pictures seem overly grainy. I was just trying to figure out if I'm missing something. I used to doing outdoor photos, so I'm a little out of my element doing indoor stuff without a flash.

My camera is a Canon 60D, and I'm using a standard 18-55mm lens (I know it's not a great lens, I'm saving up for a 50mm and a IS- not sure which one I want yet... taking suggestions on that too.)

But is there anything I can do with what I have to reduce the noise in my photos, or is it what it is?

Thanks,
Britta

 

[MTVision]

I have been taking some indoor (low light) event photos lately where a flash is not appropriate. I have tried several different settings for ISO, Shutter, ap, etc. but my pictures seem overly grainy. I was just trying to figure out if I'm missing something. I used to doing outdoor photos, so I'm a little out of my element doing indoor stuff without a flash.

My camera is a Canon 60D, and I'm using a standard 18-55mm lens (I know it's not a great lens, I'm saving up for a 50mm and a IS- not sure which one I want yet... taking suggestions on that too.)

But is there anything I can do with what I have to reduce the noise in my photos, or is it what it is?

Thanks,
Britta

Don't underexpose at all. Granted you might not have a choice if you max out your ISO. Using a higher ISO and having a properly exposed image will probably have less noise then if you underexpose and brighten in post. You should also look up ETTR (expose to the right) - it helps when using high ISO's. You can reduce noise slightly in an editing program - just don't overdo it cus it can make the picture look funky.

 

[Big Mike]

Firstly, it's important to understand the balance of settings that gives you an exposure. On the camera, we have shutter speed, aperture and ISO. We can always keep the shutter open longer, to let in more light and get a good exposure...but the longer the shutter speed, the more that motion will be captured as blur. So that's not a great option in many cases (where either the camera or subject will move). If you can put the camera on a tripod, and are shooting something that isn't moving, then you're OK...all you have to do is use a longer shutter speed.

But if that's not an option that works for you, the next thing (maybe the first) is to use a larger aperture (lower F number). The larger the aperture, the more light you let into the camera (and thus the faster the shutter speed and/or the lower the ISO). But of course, using a larger aperture will give you a shallower DOF...which may or may not be what you want for your photo.

The third option we have, to control exposure, is the ISO. The higher you turn the ISO the brighter the image will be (or the more you can compensate with the other two variables). But of course, the trade off for higher ISO is digital noise. So keeping a low ISO, is the best way to control noise...but sometimes you have to compensate for the other two settings, so it's inevitable that you'll have to use a higher ISO.

Of course, the last 'variable' is the amount of light. So if you are in a low light situation (and can't add light), you have to use your three on-camera variables. And if you find that the situation calls for a really high ISO, then you just have to realize that you're at the limitations of your equipment and of photography in general.

But as you know, getting a better lens can help. If you get something like the 50mm F1.8, and compare it to the 18-55mm (at 55m), you can let in more than 8 times as much light. So if you had to use ISO 3200 at the maximum aperture of F5.6, you could use an ISO of 400 or less, at F1.8m and keep the same exposure.

And as mentioned, noise will show up a lot more if you underexpose your photo and have to brighten it up in post. So making sure you get proper exposure in the first place, will mean much less noise in the final photo.

 

[bratkinson]

Big Mike hit the nail on the head.

I ran into the exact same problems using a "slow" lens with my 60D. In my case, the 18-135 f3.5-5.6. The fix was to get "fast" lenses...f2.8 and faster (lower f numbers) to allow in more light. I also learned (the hard way, what else?) that a long, slow, wide-open shots require extra stability...be it a monopod (for mobility over a tripod), or IS. I use both together when shooting indoors. Most of my lenses have IS. Going hand-held, no IS, no flash, and anything longer than about 1/60th shutter speed is a receipe for disaster. Been there, done that, too.

Lastly, most photo editing software has various levels of noise elimination. Unfortunately, it tends to soften the photo a bit. Use it judiciously!

 

[BrittaM]

Firstly, it's important to understand the balance of settings that gives you an exposure. On the camera, we have shutter speed, aperture and ISO. We can always keep the shutter open longer, to let in more light and get a good exposure...but the longer the shutter speed, the more that motion will be captured as blur. So that's not a great option in many cases (where either the camera or subject will move). If you can put the camera on a tripod, and are shooting something that isn't moving, then you're OK...all you have to do is use a longer shutter speed.

But if that's not an option that works for you, the next thing (maybe the first) is to use a larger aperture (lower F number). The larger the aperture, the more light you let into the camera (and thus the faster the shutter speed and/or the lower the ISO). But of course, using a larger aperture will give you a shallower DOF...which may or may not be what you want for your photo.

The third option we have, to control exposure, is the ISO. The higher you turn the ISO the brighter the image will be (or the more you can compensate with the other two variables). But of course, the trade off for higher ISO is digital noise. So keeping a low ISO, is the best way to control noise...but sometimes you have to compensate for the other two settings, so it's inevitable that you'll have to use a higher ISO.

Of course, the last 'variable' is the amount of light. So if you are in a low light situation (and can't add light), you have to use your three on-camera variables. And if you find that the situation calls for a really high ISO, then you just have to realize that you're at the limitations of your equipment and of photography in general.

But as you know, getting a better lens can help. If you get something like the 50mm F1.8, and compare it to the 18-55mm (at 55m), you can let in more than 8 times as much light. So if you had to use ISO 3200 at the maximum aperture of F5.6, you could use an ISO of 400 or less, at F1.8m and keep the same exposure.

And as mentioned, noise will show up a lot more if you underexpose your photo and have to brighten it up in post. So making sure you get proper exposure in the first place, will mean much less noise in the final photo.

Thanks Big Mike! I have tried all of those thing, and just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. It sounds like the only thing left for me to do it get the 50mm lens. One last question. I know the 50mm lens can come with a 1.4 or a 1.8.... is there really that much of a difference between those two? Which one should I go for? (I'm thinking long term, not a quick fix.) I would probably be using it mostly for outdoor (and once I get it, studio) portraits which is what I normally shoot.

 

[KmH]

Unfortunately, there are issues caused by using a wide open aperture on a fast prime lens. focus tends to soften and depth-of-field become shallow also having a detrimental effect of focus sharpness because the DoF is so thin.

Why is flash inappropriate at the indoor events?

There is only a 2/3 stop difference between f/1.4 and f/1.8, but a sizable jump in cost to get from f/1.8 to f/1.4.

 

[BrittaM]

Unfortunately, there are issues caused by using a wide open aperture on a fast prime lens. focus tends to soften and depth-of-field become shallow also having a detrimental effect of focus sharpness because the DoF is so thin.

Why is flash inappropriate at the indoor events?

There is only a 2/3 stop difference between f/1.4 and f/1.8, but a sizable jump in cost to get from f/1.8 to f/1.4.

The photos I'm taking are at a church during a service, so a flash would be too distracting. They want the photos to update their web site since they are in a new building. I think most of the ones I have are okay since they will not be full sized on the new website. I just want to make sure I'm getting them the best possible pictures.

 

[Big Mike]

I know the 50mm lens can come with a 1.4 or a 1.8.... is there really that much of a difference between those two?

That was probably the most asked question on internet photography forums...until everyone got themselves a digital camera. Now the most ask questions is "Which camera should I get".

To boil it down, the F1.4 lets in more light (but not a whole lot), but the real difference is in the quality of the lens as a whole (and of course, price). The 50mm F1.8 has good quality glass (it's a simple design) but the quality of the rest of it, is bias toward the 'cheap' end of the scale. It feels like a toy when you pick it up.
The 50mm F1.4, on the other hand, is built better and feels more like a tool, than a toy. It does cost 3-4 times as much, but that being said, it's still a good bargain.
Canon also has a 50mm F1.2 lens, which is about 14 times as expensive as the F1.8 model. It's supposedly a great lens, but maybe not worth the extra cost over the F1.4 & F1.8.

As mentioned above, as the aperture gets bigger, your DOF gets thinner...so you have to realize that even when you have these 'fast' lenses, it's not always appropriate to shoot with them 'wide open'. Also, as with most lenses, their image quality suffers when at the maximum, and greatly improves when you use a slightly smaller aperture setting.

About using flash...as a wedding photographer, I fire my flash in plenty of churches. It's usually not an issue at all, unless you are right up in people's faces firing directly at them. If you can get an accessory flash, and bounce the light off of a wall or ceiling, your lighting will be much nicer and it's not as likely to bother anyone.