Making money with your photographs.

JerryPH · Oct 6, 2008

The point is, there are a lot of people putting in an honest effort and failing badly, being "bohemian" (of which I truly have a little of in my blood...lol), is really nothing more than playing the odds, and we know how the odds already suck for those that do 1/2 a job vs the ones that just want to take a chance and see without investing much effort at all.

usayit · Oct 6, 2008

abraxas said:
Sheesh, I thought you were a bit more intelligent than that- look up the definition.

You don't give me enough credit.... I know exactly what it means. The point of my half joking comment is in the same direction to Jerry's post.

It was my guess that you are able to pick up on that.. guess I was wrong.

Just curious.... do you know any successful professional photographers that lived the Bohemian life? (specifically the cultural movement not those of Bohemian area of the Czech Republic).

abraxas · Oct 6, 2008

JerryPH said:
The point is, there are a lot of people putting in an honest effort and failing badly, being "bohemian" ... , is really nothing more than playing the odds, and we know how the odds already suck for those that do 1/2 a job vs the ones that just want to take a chance and see without investing much effort at all.

Your "point," appears muddled to me.

If a person limits their financial obligations, financial burdens are more easily met. Efforts can then be expended into more enjoyable pursuits. These pursuits, if they are productive, can more easily provide satisfaction to financial obligations with increased effort- The trick is, is to take a chance and put forth the effort.

Waiting for financial freedom, just implies -old- to me, and with today's economy, may never occur.

afghanjohn,

You sound like you were into it full time before- What happened.

abraxas · Oct 6, 2008

usayit said:
You don't give me enough credit.... I know exactly what it means. The point of my half joking comment is in the same direction to Jerry's post.

It was my guess that you are able to pick up on that.. guess I was wrong.

Just curious.... do you know any successful professional photographers that lived the Bohemian life? (specifically the cultural movement not those of Bohemian area of the Czech Republic).

Maybe "unconventional", or "nonconformist" would be easier on you.

Lyncca · Oct 6, 2008

I am personally making enough to cover most of my equipment now, but I have only been taking portraits for a few months. I charge a minimum fee and have not advertised, and won't until I feel that I have professional equipment, that I can be confident enough in my abilities and handle the workload.

While I would love to do photography full time, I also don't want to ruin the fun I have. I had a "web design" hobby that lasted 10 years before I couldn't stomach doing it a day more on top of my day job. It literally became another full time job.

Now, playing with kids and families and taking their pictures still seems more appealing than sitting at a desk 40 hours a week like I do now, but I will have to take a lot of freaking pictures before I could make the money I do now in my day job

I also agree that it is more business than anything, but I seem to have a knack at it because every hobby I start seems to turn into one without even trying...

abraxas · Oct 6, 2008

Lyncca said:
...
I also agree that it is more business than anything, but I seem to have a knack at it because every hobby I start seems to turn into one without even trying...

The business end is only important if you have to make scads of money. It doesn't take a degree to turn a profit.

The latter part of this I can identify with. Pretty much the same here, but I thought, "Hey, if I don't eat much, then I don't have to get much to eat." So I left my last day job behind years ago. I liked my day job just fine--it evolved from a hobby. I just wanted more than working for money so I don't have to work for money. If I dropped dead tomorrow, or maybe even later tonight, I've had the benefit of 14 years of being supported by my artistic creativity. This round I seem to be going through currently, will afford me even more of an opportunity to develop artistically. I'm excited to see what happens.

I talked to my Dad about this type of lifestyle quite a few years ago. I explained to him that if I were to continue living close to my creativity, chances were that I would never be able to have an adequate retirement. He asked me what it was I'd do if I were to retire? I told him I'd write, take photos and travel. He said it sounded like I was retired already.

So, I used to have dreams of being financially free enough to practice my hobby full time. Now I just do what I like and am thankful that it works out.

JerryPH · Oct 6, 2008

abraxas said:
Your "point," appears muddled to me.

If a person limits their financial obligations, financial burdens are more easily met. Efforts can then be expended into more enjoyable pursuits. These pursuits, if they are productive, can more easily provide satisfaction to financial obligations with increased effort- The trick is, is to take a chance and put forth the effort.

I don't think I was being muddled at all.

"Living the dream" that concept usually doesn't mean that you settle on limiting financial obligations or taking uneducated or unprepared risks. Effort, undirected, unguided or in the wrong direction is wasted.

Nothing muddled about that.

usayit · Oct 6, 2008

abraxas said:
Maybe "unconventional", or "nonconformist" would be easier on you.

Nah.. I still stand by my points. you can be an unconventional or nonconformist as a hobbiest or dreamer or pro.

usayit · Oct 6, 2008

abraxas said:
The business end is only important if you have to make scads of money. It doesn't take a degree to turn a profit.

and profit doesn't necessarily mean professional.

I told him I'd write, take photos and travel. He said it sounded like I was retired already.

Sounds like retirement is headed towards.... A homeless guy taking mental pictures....

abraxas · Oct 6, 2008

JerryPH said:
I don't think I was being muddled at all.

"Living the dream" that concept usually doesn't mean that you settle on limiting financial obligations or taking uneducated or unprepared risks. Effort, undirected, unguided or in the wrong direction is wasted.

Nothing muddled about that.

That's a little better explanation, but still so negative and narrow. You're making what seems to be unqualified assumptions. There's nothing that has been settled on, no uneducated risks or chance taken without assessing the outcome of potential failure. The direction is obvious, satisfaction, the very definition of success as far as I'm concerned. Why be afraid of failure and making mistakes?

No guts, no glory. Wallow in it if you want. C-ya.

JerryPH · Oct 7, 2008

There is actually a lot of proof out there. Here in Canada, it is possible to get access to informational statistics concerning how many kinds of "X" type of businesses fail or succeed within "Y" amount of time.

I believe the same information should be available in the USA. Anyone that starts a business based on a dream can succeed, however, anyone that starts a business based on a dream and doesn't proceed in a very specific and clear manner, *will* fail, and negative as that may be, it is a proven fact.

Take something simple, something VERY basic and VERY important... a business plan that defines actions and reasons and methods of success... how many even thought to start a business without one? Here in Canada, your chances of even getting a 10 dollar business loan are near ZERO without a business plan, I know, because I tried... yet with a business plan, and the associated worth that it brought, gave me a 5 digit loan within 48 hours.

See the point I am trying to make? It is nice to dream, but it is not as easy as a dream to REALLY make it work. I am not saying people cannot make it work, obviously there are many that do succeed, however, the difference between them and most others are... one side moves past dreaming into real personal edification and preparation and the other side just continues to dream and wish while they "try".

All guts + no brains = big debt and a nice failure tacked on to your track record.

Bifurcator · Oct 7, 2008

I stood on a street corner in down town Salt Lake City just a block or two away from Temple Square on State Street and sold "my photographs" for $5 a piece while I was putting myself through school. Today that would be like selling them for $25 or $30. There were no such things as 1hr. photomats back then. The sign by my little stand said something like: "Buy A Photograph - Send A Kid To Collage". I could sell 3 to 5 an hour on busy weekends - I never tried it on a weekday that I can remember. It helped.

They were just shots from up in the mountains 10 min. away and around there in SLC - B&W 4x6 (L Sized) prints with a white boarder.

It was kinda fun - I got to know allot of very interesting people.

But I'm an Indian (native American) not Bohemian.

abraxas · Oct 9, 2008

JerryPH said:
There is actually a lot of proof out there. Here in Canada, it is possible to get access to informational statistics concerning how many kinds of "X" type of businesses fail or succeed within "Y" amount of time.

I believe the same information should be available in the USA. Anyone that starts a business based on a dream can succeed, however, anyone that starts a business based on a dream and doesn't proceed in a very specific and clear manner, *will* fail, and negative as that may be, it is a proven fact.

Take something simple, something VERY basic and VERY important... a business plan that defines actions and reasons and methods of success... how many even thought to start a business without one? Here in Canada, your chances of even getting a 10 dollar business loan are near ZERO without a business plan, I know, because I tried... yet with a business plan, and the associated worth that it brought, gave me a 5 digit loan within 48 hours.

See the point I am trying to make? It is nice to dream, but it is not as easy as a dream to REALLY make it work. I am not saying people cannot make it work, obviously there are many that do succeed, however, the difference between them and most others are... one side moves past dreaming into real personal edification and preparation and the other side just continues to dream and wish while they "try".

All guts + no brains = big debt and a nice failure tacked on to your track record.