Manaheim's Guide to Getting Comments on Your Pictures

[Forkie]

I'd add that people should critique their own work before posting it and be sure that they can get something out of the critique provided by members. There's no point in posting a snapshot of your kid at a family barbecue and expect useful critique.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that a subject which has meaning to you, such as your dog or newborn baby makes for an interesting photo. People will be reluctant to critique a bad photo of your new bundle of joy which is barely out of the oven.

 

[table1349]

People not only need to critique their work before posting it, but they need to have a reason in mind of why they want c&c. Frankly I don't bother because looking at a lot of the shots that are posted is pretty much is like going over to Uncle Bill and Aunt Peggy's house for dinner and having to watch their slide show of their last vacation. Usually for the 3rd time.

 

[mishele]

cloud....play nice.

 

[LungFish]

These rules are pretty consistent with the advice that gets dished out often, and it sounds reasonable enough. There's just one problem, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between adhering to these rules and either the quantity or quality of feedback received. If anything, breaking the rules can act as a conversation starter which leads to good feedback.

eg. "To get better C&C you should post no more than 3 images, but here is my opinion on your 20 pictures"

I think what you are really saying is that you would prefer to read posts structured that way (and I can see why that would be), but that's different to leading to better C&C from the forum community.

Footnote - It's possible that you personally give more C&C to posts that follow your advice here, I don't remember your posts well enough to judge that

 

[manaheim]

These rules are pretty consistent with the advice that gets dished out often, and it sounds reasonable enough. There's just one problem, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between adhering to these rules and either the quantity or quality of feedback received. If anything, breaking the rules can act as a conversation starter which leads to good feedback.

eg. "To get better C&C you should post no more than 3 images, but here is my opinion on your 20 pictures"

I think what you are really saying is that you would prefer to read posts structured that way (and I can see why that would be), but that's different to leading to better C&C from the forum community.

Footnote - It's possible that you personally give more C&C to posts that follow your advice here, I don't remember your posts well enough to judge that

Well, no... actually these are mostly the methods I use to get comments on my pictures. I wasn't actually posting them as rules to follow to get comments from me. It's just what I found that works well for getting comments from others.

 

[manaheim]

Why do positive actions like this always draw such negative remarks? I just don't get it. Maybe the header of this forum should be changed to "Only self professed photography experts allowed. Anyone with any ideas other than mine will be beaten and swiftly expelled."

You know this guy really nailed it. Anytime anyone tries to help, this community has some percentage of people that will find not only fault with it, but fault with the intent... and what I see is that the perceived intent can make a quite positive action into a very negative one very easily.

For example... if I posted this (as I did) in an attempt to just help folks get comments on their stuff more consistently, then I'm a nice guy. Doesn't matter how right or wrong I may be, because in the end we'll vet that out as a community and the quality will only improve, providing more value. Win.

If, however, I posted this because (say) "I'm sick of people doing it wrong, and I won't comment unless they follow this rule set", then I'm pretty much a snob and an asshole.

Why, however, people just assume anyone would be a snob and an asshole, I just don't quite get. (mind you... I'm speaking GENERALLY... not just of me...)

I should post another thread about trying to assume people aren't assholes.

Actually I think I did that.

And I was yelled at for it.

 

[LungFish]

Well, no... actually these are mostly the methods I use to get comments on my pictures. I wasn't actually posting them as rules to follow to get comments from me. It's just what I found that works well for getting comments from others.

I didn't think it was advice to get C&C from you, just that you might have been assuming other people think the way you do.

There may be another variable here though, the photos you are posting are probably decent. It may work for you in a different way to how it works for a beginner.

And I wasn't assuming you were an arsehole by the way, I do appreciate the effort you put in to the post, just think the advice might not work.

 

[The_Traveler]

Perhaps cloudwalker would tell us how he gets posts on the pictures he posts?

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

I disagree with not saying what you think about your image(s).


There are too many people who keep coming back and posting a bunch more images asking how they can improve.
I want to know what these people have learned. I want to know, after a while, that the poster is actually making decisions about cropping and composition.
You can give pointers to people till you're blue in the face, and they may not be learning anything. A lot of compostitional advice is image specific. It's best to hear the decisions the OP makes in the image(s) posted. This gives responders a chance to guide, correct, suggest, and inform the OP why their choices work, or do not work.

I recently asked someone who (has been here for a while) posted 9 images for C&C to give their own critique of their images, and the response was basic, and weak.
I can surmise from that, that they are learning very little, and do not have the ability to be critical of their own work.
Often a feeling of "why bother" is the result.

I am all for OP's telling us what THEY know. It gives other members a base to start from to actually be helpful.

I think this applies mostly to "beginners" though.
Images you (Manny) post, are at the other end of the spectrum, where your choices of composition and framing can be questioned, and you know what your talking about, so you can speak to the choices you made. Then it becomes informative. It allows us to see your viewpoint, or your creative thinking process.

 

[pgriz]

I agree with Bitter jeweler. I've given critiques on images that I presumed were from beginners, and with few exceptions, the advice (whether given by me or others) seems to disappear into thin air. Later postings from the same people, if they bother posting again, tend to be more of the same. So, at a certain point, you wonder, why bother, echoing what BJ said above. On the other hand, there are a few that have taken advice and have shown what they did with that advice. Subsequent images show movement, evolution. There is an incentive to help.


Part of learning anything, is to understand enough to ask the right question. Which implies that they know enough structure to determine what they don't know. Having beginners explain their thinking process allows the more experienced members to get a better idea of what the operating knowledge base is. For instance, if a person has "soft" images and doesn't understand the relation between DOF and aperture, then telling them that their focus placement left too much of the subject outside the DOF range, will sound like gobbility-gook. So in that case, you need to get them to take the baby steps, that will allow them to understand at least some of the elements that contribute to image sharpness.

I like Chris's (Manaheim) list as a starting point for a conversation. If some of us think we know better, then give the suggestions as to what can/should be improved. If we disagree, then that's fine too - disussion can often sharpen the issues and lead to better understanding. I've been on other forums where the critique process is quite elaborate and is monitored/moderated quite aggressively. However, the people receiving those critiques have, in general, excellent technique, and the discussion is usually over artistic or expressive decisions. Many of the first-time posters here are perhaps years away from that level of expertise. On the other hand, we do come across some beginners who have undeniable talent and have stunning images with very little prior experience. Those people can teach the "experienced" among us to "see" better. So, let's continue the conversation. And let's ask for posters to give us the reasons for their decisions, their images, and their comments. In many ways, those reasons are more illuminating than the decisions/images/comments themselves.

 

[Fred Berg]

My advice for beginners who want to get more out of the feedback experience would be to post at least some of their efforts in the galleries. Don't be daunted by this because, although some of the more experienced members can seem a little severe at times, nobody is going to bite you; and any response you do get won't be one taking it easy on a noob and should be more useful as a result.

 

[The_Traveler]

One thing that turns me away is when a beginner or quasi-beginner has their images marked 'no edit.'
There isn't any good reason for a beginner to do that that and it is much more dificult to describe sometimes subtle things in words when a simple edit will do the trick easily.

I showed someone a crop in a PM and the person went all ballistic.
He told me that when he said no editing he meant that no one could touch his image at all.
Do you think I should expect that he will be coming to my house and checking my files for his stuff?

 

[Infinite_Day]

One thing that turns me away is when a beginner or quasi-beginner has their images marked 'no edit.'
There isn't any good reason for a beginner to do that that and it is much more dificult to describe sometimes subtle things in words when a simple edit will do the trick easily.

I showed someone a crop in a PM and the person went all ballistic.
He told me that when he said no editing he meant that no one could touch his image at all.
Do you think I should expect that he will be coming to my house and checking my files for his stuff?

I would probably be grateful that you took the time to edit one of my photos. If you're putting a photo up here for C&C you're probably not making much if any money off it anyway. If I have a shot I don't want somebody to edit I just *gasp!* don't post it! People are too uptight.

 

[manaheim]

This is really interesting.

The reason why I had suggested NOT giving your sense of things, reasons, etc. in your post was somewhat multi-dimensioned...

1. If you say what you intended that you bias the reader, and it's better to get an unbiased perspective on your work.
2. If you say what you intended, but you seriously failed in that, people may shy away from commenting so as not to offend you.

Ok, dual-dimensioned I suppose.

Still, I see the logic you guys are laying down. It makes sense. Maybe it's a matter of experience... maybe less experienced folks or those "less sure" should come right out and say what they were intending, and other folks not? And I assume in either case it's going to be on a case by case basis. I generally don't say what I was intending, but there are pictures where I will.

Great discussion, either way.

 

[Compaq]

When I'm posting pictures I'm not necessarily happy with - maybe I've experienced with something, or in other ways very unsure - I try to explain my reasoning for my decisions. When I'm posting pictures that I like, I'm less open with what my intentions were, but I still will say my opinions in short.
When I post in the galleries just to show, I probably won't say much.
Not that I'm posting many pictures atm, but that's my philosophy, I think.