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Maximize Contrast when taking photo

hey michael - that was a typo, see above :)

Never thought digital cameras have such bad dynamic range. Hehe... Which means I get 4 EV of highlights and 10 EV of shadows if DxOMark's test is true... Damn it.
 
Yeah. And about a third of those shadows will be such a disaster they are practically unusable. Still, better than chrome.
 
Yeah. And about a third of those shadows will be such a disaster they are practically unusable. Still, better than chrome.

Yes, exactly one third. Up to ISO 6400 it's good - meaning 6 EV of shadows. More than that it's disaster but not really unusable.
 
At -6 I start clipping, I consider my useable latitude to be pretty much ±4. So really -10 is good even if you can only use a portion.

Woot, I'm getting a whole stop more than Velvia!
 
.. wow. this thread has taken a turn to nerdsvilles.

anyway. it's bedtime. tty folks later.
 
I am probably going to have to (re)read this a few times to understand it all. When I have more time. Now just one quick comment on this:

You had said that you opt to use the entire available histogram on what was important. At first I thought that this was an interesting exception - but in fact you too are using the same amount of space, except that instead of placing the image further up and lighter, you're placing it further down and darker, more like how the image is to be ultimately rendered.

When I view my histograms, they just often strech over the entire range, clipping at both ends. Is this not normal for "most" scenes where there is a lot of light and also shadows?

Yesterday I sat and played with Saturation and Hue in the "Vivid" picture control, adjusting them individually to try and see which does what and figure out when to use which. But while doing this I also kept looking at the histogram and tried to adjust the exposure to avoid clipping the highlights. I found this to be impossible - there was always a few spots where the highlights would flash warning. And by the time I got it "minimized" so much of the histogram shows in the lower ranges (is this what is called zones?) that I fear I'm just doing exactly the opposite of ETTR.

I'll upload the raw files somewhere tonight (I can set up a web site for this) so that you can see what I mean with the histogram covering the whole range.

Hmmm, My D3000 had a preview screen showing the color channel histograms separately. It seems the D5100 I have now only have a combined luminosity histogram - (still brand new, I'm still trying to just find everything in the menus)
 
In some scenes, you just cannot avoid some clipping. Scenes with very high dynamic range, such as a forest path with the sky peaking through the trees will likely clip on both sides and the only means for such an image is to take more than one exposure and combine the two in one way or another. Generally, you are better off decreasing exposure to compensate for blown diffuse light since most of the time subjects aren't going to be the highlights, but having little bits of specular - those little tiny dots of flashing clipped areas - is really not too bad and some would argue even desirable if you're shooting with the intention of getting everything right in camera.

If in nearly every scene that isn't overtly low contrast you're getting clipping on either side, then your histogram warning is off. This feature is the most powerful aspect of digital photography, IMO, and I see the histogram as kind of an extension of the light meter. Unfortunately though it seems that it's not always accurate due to the fact it's measured off a processed image.

If you can get UniWB to work, that may be one option. And you do have RGB histogram via the Playback Display Options menu, according to Nikon D5100 Review: 7. Menus: Digital Photography Review. Unfortunately I cannot find any NEF files from this camera online. So I will have to wait to help you get a near UniWB setting for your camera. But this should help a bit with the JPEG preview.

You can, and should, also know the latitude of your camera, and it is very easy to test for. If exposing for the high lights, Simply take a white sheet of paper, mark a small circle or square, about 1" wide, and under a strong light, preferably daylight corrected (or whatever temperature is most typical) find the highest exposure possible without any signs of clipping according to your preview by spot metering within the mark made. Do the same for the low end by deceasing exposure until just before clipping occurs.

Now, set the camera to +1 time value above the recorded high value, and expose every 1/3 Tv for -1 Tv, now take an exposure for every full stop until you are at the lower end that you previously measured, then do the same for every 1/3 Tv for 1 Tv less than the low value you measured.

For example, if your preview is saying that no clipping will occur at +4, -6 then you would expose at
+6, +5 2/3, +5 1/3, +5, +4 [...] -5, -6, -6 1/3, -6 2/3, -7

It may be helpful to rename these files to reflect their respective relative time values.

In the RAW processor, ensure that either you are using the proper white balance and process as generically as possible. Do not apply any sort of special curve that is not applied by default, or anything else. Check the clipping warning on the high and low end - these will be your minimum and maximum latitudes.

The other intermediate exposures also tell you very important information about your camera and your processing techniques. You may measure every value to have a better idea of how making exposure adjustments are actually affecting the image. I was surprised to find that my meter reading of 0ev does not actually relate to the center of my histogram, which is what I consider truly "middle grey", rather +1ev was much closer! Understanding where the camera places exposure is very important, IMO, to understanding how to effectively meter.
 
In some scenes, you just cannot avoid some clipping. Scenes with very high dynamic range, such as a forest path with the sky peaking through the trees will likely clip on both sides and the only means for such an image is to take more than one exposure and combine the two in one way or another. Generally, you are better off decreasing exposure to compensate for blown diffuse light since most of the time subjects aren't going to be the highlights, but having little bits of specular - those little tiny dots of flashing clipped areas - is really not too bad and some would argue even desirable if you're shooting with the intention of getting everything right in camera.

If in nearly every scene that isn't overtly low contrast you're getting clipping on either side, then your histogram warning is off. This feature is the most powerful aspect of digital photography, IMO, and I see the histogram as kind of an extension of the light meter. Unfortunately though it seems that it's not always accurate due to the fact it's measured off a processed image.

If you can get UniWB to work, that may be one option. And you do have RGB histogram via the Playback Display Options menu, according to Nikon D5100 Review: 7. Menus: Digital Photography Review. Unfortunately I cannot find any NEF files from this camera online. So I will have to wait to help you get a near UniWB setting for your camera. But this should help a bit with the JPEG preview.

You can, and should, also know the latitude of your camera, and it is very easy to test for. If exposing for the high lights, Simply take a white sheet of paper, mark a small circle or square, about 1" wide, and under a strong light, preferably daylight corrected (or whatever temperature is most typical) find the highest exposure possible without any signs of clipping according to your preview by spot metering within the mark made. Do the same for the low end by deceasing exposure until just before clipping occurs.

Now, set the camera to +1 time value above the recorded high value, and expose every 1/3 Tv for -1 Tv, now take an exposure for every full stop until you are at the lower end that you previously measured, then do the same for every 1/3 Tv for 1 Tv less than the low value you measured.

For example, if your preview is saying that no clipping will occur at +4, -6 then you would expose at
+6, +5 2/3, +5 1/3, +5, +4 [...] -5, -6, -6 1/3, -6 2/3, -7

It may be helpful to rename these files to reflect their respective relative time values.

In the RAW processor, ensure that either you are using the proper white balance and process as generically as possible. Do not apply any sort of special curve that is not applied by default, or anything else. Check the clipping warning on the high and low end - these will be your minimum and maximum latitudes.

The other intermediate exposures also tell you very important information about your camera and your processing techniques. You may measure every value to have a better idea of how making exposure adjustments are actually affecting the image. I was surprised to find that my meter reading of 0ev does not actually relate to the center of my histogram, which is what I consider truly "middle grey", rather +1ev was much closer! Understanding where the camera places exposure is very important, IMO, to understanding how to effectively meter.

This is complicated, at least for the white paper part.
 
I will tomorrow - lots of stuff planned.

Either I'm at a low on my biorythms or you guys are deliberately complex :-)

Only kidding. Along with your explanation, please also explain what the values MEAN and more importantly: How to apply this knowledge.

Thank you so much for sharing this info, I think I've learned more from this thread already than I have in months.
 

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