Metering mode when shooting in manual?

[jjd228]

Many of you seem to have not understood the question. I understand light metering, and how the different modes behave. The question was, simply, when shooting in manual does metering mode even matter (have an effect on the exposure/shot)? And the answer is no.

You didn't ask that, you stated that:

When shooting in manual mode it doesn't matter what metering mode you select.

So, from the actual questions in your OP it looks like they did understand.

Actually I said "When shooting in manual mode it doesn't matter what metering mode you select. The camera will still meter the scene to show you what it thinks, but nothing about the exposure will be changed based on metering mode." You forgot the 2nd sentence. And in reading the whole thing, I can't see how that is difficult to understand or would prompt and explanation of the various metering modes. Clearly I wasn't looking for a metering mode tutorial. And since most people got that, I'm gonna go with you didn't understand the question.

 

[TheFantasticG]

You can go with that, but you'll be wrong. That's fine. But I didn't forget the sentences anymore than you think you're wrong. They weren't applicable so they weren't included. I was merely pointing out you weren't asking in the OP what you were asking later in the thread. You stated it in the OP. What you asked later in the thread is different than what you asked in the OP.

 

[curtyoungblood]

Your description of metering mode's effect on manual exposure is incomplete at best. The metering mode definitely as an in direct relationship to the exposure in manual mode. Saying that it doesn't matter what metering mode you select in manual mode is just wrong. You're going to be using the camera's meter to find a proper exposure (even if you set it yourself), and changing the metering mode will change what the meter reads.

 

[snowbear116 47]

^ this.

No, the camera isn't making any direct changes to exposure, but it is influencing your exposure setting choices due to the variable "zero point."

 

[nzmacro]

From the posts I've read so far, you seem to have a real thing about manual modes.

What the metering tells me I have no interest in. Some technician that does the algorithm and programming in Japan has no idea what so ever what I'm looking at, what I need and what I want exposure wise. Looking at a subject, I do. I have fixed settings I use and know exactly what I can get away with in the software used later on. Where the sun is and what / how that effects aperture, shutter speed and ISO, the guy that programmed it has no idea what is needed for the subjects some of us take.

Auto ISO, man that really leaves a lot to be desired in what it picks quite often. Again, no interest in it.

So we all use what we want and need. Its the shot that counts and how it got there, well the shot couldn't care less how it got there, it simply exists. So am I wrong, probably, my wife always tells me I am, so I'm used to it, but I do what I do and you may use whatever works for you.

Danny.

 

[unpopular]

JJD228: Why do you want to shoot manual? This might seem like a silly question, but given some of your replies I think it's important. The way that the metering modes work influence their appropriateness for manual photography (see Derrel's excellent post).

In practice, there really isn't any specific advantage to shooting manual. I shoot manual because I always have, and also because I use a lot of manual lenses that lack aperture coupling. It's simply what I'm comfortable with.

I often do recommend that novice photographers use manual mode to slow down and look at exposure, composition and subject in a holistic way and to appreciate camera control on an intuitive level. Another advantage is that understanding manual will help you understand AE, and appreciate what exactly AE is doing in the different modes.

However, by virtue of shooting manual alone will not make you a better photographer, neither technically nor artistically. Understanding how the meter works is the first step to understanding manual mode. Auto exposure is not magical.

Now that said, I shot exclusively in spot mode, both in AE and in Manual. It offers me a level of precision and control that other modes do not, and my subjet matter being stationary allows me the time to work slowly. Literally the only difference between manual mode and auto mode is what dial I turn. In manual mode I might change any of all three camera controls available, aperture, time and (lastly) ISO. In auto mode, the camera does this for me depending on the mode selected by changing the compensation dial. But again, it does not matter one whit if I'm in manual or auto mode: they're doing the same thing. Strictly speaking exposure, if I point my meter at the same object in the same meter mode, I will get the same results no matter if it's set to AE or M. In other words, any given meter will respond exactly the same regardless if the exposure is set to manual.

 

[pgriz]

The metering mode tells the camera what portion of the full image area to use for evaluating the exposure. Matrix/evaluative looks at the whole frame. Center-weighted average uses about 60% of the frame near the middle. Spot-meter uses about 10% of the image. If your spot is pointed at a dark part of the scene (as in AstroNikon's example), then the meter will expose the dark part as needing to be 18% grey, and will overexpose the lighter parts. I use that mode as a probe to build up a sense of the dynamic range of the scene, and then pick an exposure that maximizes the amount of detail I record in the areas I care about.

 

[bribrius]

manual
matrix
auto iso
af cont
ch shutter


call it a day

 

[bribrius]

matrix is the best thing since sliced bread

 

[unpopular]

matrix is the best thing since sliced bread

If you're into that generic look, I suppose.

Really, the debate over manual or auto is a non-issue. auto mode isn't soem magical thing. it's not artificial intelligence it's not making "decisions". If more people understood exposure in general, they'd realize this, and they'd realize how silly and redundant it is to use matrix/evaluative in manual mode.

A much more valid debate is between metering modes. Matrix/evaluative really does limit control in exchange for speed. There is nothing wrong with this for situations where exposures can be taken quickly and relatively accurately is more valued than artistic control over rendering.

In many, many forms of photography this is highly desirable. If you're photographing an outdoor sporting event, you're not going to want to be fideling with spot metering in manual mode to "best represent" what zone the player's skin tone should be relative to the background. That's just silly. Sports photography is about sports, it's about the moment of action, it's not so much about the skin tone of the player.

But likewise in many other cases, such as landscape photography these concerns are much more important than speed and exposing at a decisive moment.

 

[Derrel]

Posts #22 and #25 make a dangerously high amount of actual sense to me.

As to the idea that the metering mode makes "no difference" in what settings the camera will say are correct: I call B.S. on that on its face. Here's a little test: Take your camera out on a nice, bright, sunny day, and set the metering mode to SPOT metering, and shoot 100 frames in Aperture Priority AUTO mode...Av mode, as Canon calls it. Then, switch to Matrix/Evaluative mode, and shoot 100 shots in Aperture Priority AUTO mode, AKA "Av" mode in Canon-speak.

Chances are very high that the spot metering metering style used in auto mode will look like crap on 25 to 30 percent of the frames, whereas the Matrix shots made in AUTO mode will look "decent".

 

[Robin Usagani]

What derrel said. The only time you should use spot metering is for manual. You can use it for semi auto but you need to be using AE lock. I personally do not use spot metering even with manual setting.

Now that I am talking about this, I think I should start using manual with spot metering. The reason I dont is because I switch to AV a lot during weddings. I should probably start programming my C1, C2, C3 so that C1 will go to manual & spot, C2 AV and matrix, C3 TV with matrix.

 

[AlanKlein82 21]

and they'd realize how silly and redundant it is to use matrix/evaluative in manual mode.

It's not silly. If you plan on shooting a few shots in the same area under the same lighting conditions, you can use matrix/evaluative to determine the best exposure and then set your exposure once. Then forget about exposure and shoot a bunch a shots as long as the lighting doesn't change.

 

[jjd228]

Posts #22 and #25 make a dangerously high amount of actual sense to me.

As to the idea that the metering mode makes "no difference" in what settings the camera will say are correct: I call B.S. on that on its face. Here's a little test: Take your camera out on a nice, bright, sunny day, and set the metering mode to SPOT metering, and shoot 100 frames in Aperture Priority AUTO mode...Av mode, as Canon calls it. Then, switch to Matrix/Evaluative mode, and shoot 100 shots in Aperture Priority AUTO mode, AKA "Av" mode in Canon-speak.

Chances are very high that the spot metering metering style used in auto mode will look like crap on 25 to 30 percent of the frames, whereas the Matrix shots made in AUTO mode will look "decent".

I have no idea how or why this thread was turned into a "what metering mode is best" discussion. I was simply asking if the very act of choosing a metering mode made a difference when shooting in "full" manual mode. By full manual mode I mean manual mode where you manually select an ISO value as opposed to leaving ISO on auto. The distinction is important because if you shoot in manual but leave ISO on auto, then different metering modes WILL affect the final exposure of your shot because the ISO value will be chosen based on the metering. However if you shoot in FULL manual mode, then metering mode has zero outcome on the exposure of your shot. Yes, the meter indicator WILL change based on the metering mode you choose, but that's just the camera showing you what it thinks is the proper exposure in that metering mode. But no exposure changes will be made because you are manually choosing them all. I hope I cleared up my intent

 

[Braineack]

The distinction is important because if you shoot in manual but leave ISO on auto, then different metering modes WILL affect the final exposure of your shot because the ISO value will be chosen based on the metering. However if you shoot in FULL manual mode, then metering mode has zero outcome on the exposure of your shot. Yes, the meter indicator WILL change based on the metering mode you choose, but that's just the camera showing you what it thinks is the proper exposure in that metering mode. But no exposure changes will be made because you are manually choosing them all. I hope I cleared up my intent

In Manual Mode, if the camera is changing the ISO, then the "exposure" is changing. And the metering mode matters, because the camera will change the ISO based on how it meters, be it spot or matrix.

In Manual Mode, if the camera is not changing the ISO, then the exposure is not changing. However, the metering mode still matters because the user might change the exposure based on how the camera meters, be it spot or matrix.

I pretty much said this in post #8 to directly address this.


Imagine you're about to take a shot at 100iso:

If you set your camera to Aperture priority and want to shoot at f/5.6, the camera will change the shutter speed based on the metering mode selected.

If you set your camera to Manual, and want to shoot at f/5.6, you will change the shutter speed based on the metering mode selected.

Both modes, in this case, will end up with the exact same exposure.