musing world politics

[Osmer_Toby]

It does seem to me that Osmer often promotes lefty views with this being an example.

well, mr sid, i must admit to being a little taken aback by this. i was unaware i was promoting any view in this thread, other than
1) killing people is something to be avoided
and
2) i wonder why the us always reacts without exception in favor of israel whenever an issue arrises, regardless of which side prompted the world reaction to begin with

how is this lefty?
by extension, does that mean that the conservative right holds the opinion it is ok to kill people as long as they don't fit the picture exactly the way they see it? to be a true republican do i need to support blindly israel regardless of atrocity or ramifications to my own country?

and regardless of how you manage to interpret my questions and observations, am i now to understand that the subject of MD's diatribe is none other than myself?

translation: is MD talking about ME when he expresses disgust for that certain attitude to which he refers earlier in this thread?

 

[Tammy]

there was a story not long ago...about an american woman who went to israel and stood in front of the bulldozers and she was mowed over...

Her name was Rachel Corrie . She was killed by an Israeli soldier driving a bulldozer in March, 2003.

1) killing people is something to be avoided

I'm not in favor of killing people per se, but what do you do with people that are set on killing you?



There are kinds of peace which are highly undesirable, which are in the long run as destructive as any war. Tyrants and oppressors have many times made a wilderness and called it peace. Many times peoples who were slothful or timid or shortsighted, who had been enervated by ease or by luxury, or misled by false teachings, have shrunk in unmanly fashion from doing duty that was stern and that needed self-sacrifice, and have sought to hide from their own minds their shortcomings, their ignoble motives, by calling them love of peace. The peace of tyrannous terror, the peace of craven weakness, the peace of injustice, all these should be shunned as we shun unrighteous war. - Extracted from Transcript of Theodore Roosevelt's Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine (1905)

 

[MDowdey]

translation: is MD talking about ME when he expresses disgust for that certain attitude to which he refers earlier in this thread?

nope, just a statement in geberal...i love ya tobe!!!


md

 

[mrsid99]

It does seem to me that Osmer often promotes lefty views with this being an example.

well, mr sid, i must admit to being a little taken aback by this. i was unaware i was promoting any view in this thread, other than
1) killing people is something to be avoided
and
2) i wonder why the us always reacts without exception in favor of israel whenever an issue arrises, regardless of which side prompted the world reaction to begin with

how is this lefty?
by extension, does that mean that the conservative right holds the opinion it is ok to kill people as long as they don't fit the picture exactly the way they see it? to be a true republican do i need to support blindly israel regardless of atrocity or ramifications to my own country?

and regardless of how you manage to interpret my questions and observations, am i now to understand that the subject of MD's diatribe is none other than myself?

translation: is MD talking about ME when he expresses disgust for that certain attitude to which he refers earlier in this thread?

Not the conservative right but just reasonable Americans that don't see fit to continually raise issues that are calculated to frame the USA as bad guys.
Unlike certain pseudo-intellectuals I don't even begin to pretend that I speak for other people.

 

[oriecat]

Who here is continually raising issues? Who here has framed the US as bad guys? Since when does it make you unreasonable to ask a simple question regarding what seems to be a policy of your country? Are reasonable Americans not allowed to question now?

 

[mrsid99]

Who here is continually raising issues? Who here has framed the US as bad guys? Since when does it make you unreasonable to ask a simple question regarding what seems to be a policy of your country? Are reasonable Americans not allowed to question now?

The questions themselves are calculated to show the USA as bad guys, along the lines of: "when did you stop beating your wife?" etc.
Simple questions are rarely simple, it's the obvious intent that needs to be questioned.

 

[Osmer_Toby]

Not the conservative right but just reasonable Americans that don't see fit to continually raise issues that are calculated to frame the USA as bad guys.

hmmm. so reasonable americans only ask questions that have comfortable answers, answers that cast the usa in a good light?

my question wasn't calculated to cast the us in any light. i just want to know what people think about the unconditional support the us gives israel, regardless of israel's actions.

Unlike certain pseudo-intellectuals I don't even begin to pretend that I speak for other people.

i'm not even sure where this one came from or where it is going to- who is a pseudo intellectual, what did he/she say that was intended to speak for other people?

again, i bring us back to my original question, which was: why does the us support israel even when israel continues to ignore what is in the best interest of the us? sure, they have the right to decide courses of actions as a sovereign nation, but why do we need to condone even the most atrocious violations of international law, as long as those violations are committed by israel? we act almost as if israel is above the law...

 

[Osmer_Toby]

The questions themselves are calculated to show the USA as bad guys, along the lines of: "when did you stop beating your wife?" etc.
Simple questions are rarely simple, it's the obvious intent that needs to be questioned.

do you really believe that everything our leaders do in the name of the usa is good and right? just by virtue of the fact that the usa is your country?

my goodness gracious, what a dangerous way to think. one reason our country is the strongest in the world is because it is built on, among other things, the concept of intellectual freedom. if you limit yourself to asking questions that only cast the usa in a good light, and demand that others do so also, you seek to weaken the very foundation on which this country was built on in the first place.

 

[Osmer_Toby]

I'm not in favor of killing people per se, but what do you do with people that are set on killing you?

There are kinds of peace which are highly undesirable, which are in the long run as destructive as any war. Tyrants and oppressors have many times made a wilderness and called it peace. Many times peoples who were slothful or timid or shortsighted, who had been enervated by ease or by luxury, or misled by false teachings, have shrunk in unmanly fashion from doing duty that was stern and that needed self-sacrifice, and have sought to hide from their own minds their shortcomings, their ignoble motives, by calling them love of peace. The peace of tyrannous terror, the peace of craven weakness, the peace of injustice, all these should be shunned as we shun unrighteous war. - Extracted from Transcript of Theodore Roosevelt's Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine (1905)

hmmm. an excellent point, and one with which i agree. however, my point was not that the us should shrink from war. we ought, tho, to do all in our power to avoid war, and i have to wonder if we really are doing all that we could to remove the reasons for this particular war. so again, i take us back to our original question: why do we so blindly support israel?

btw, the bulldozing incident you refer to earlier is actually only one among many many incidents where israel has used bulldozers to destroy civilian homes and means of living.

 

[mrsid99]

do you really believe that everything our leaders do in the name of the usa is good and right? just by virtue of the fact that the usa is your country?
my goodness gracious, what a dangerous way to think. one reason our country is the strongest in the world is because it is built on, among other things, the concept of intellectual freedom. if you limit yourself to asking questions that only cast the usa in a good light, and demand that others do so also, you seek to weaken the very foundation on which this country was built on in the first place.

Let's turn that question around and ask: "why do you think everything the current government does is bad?".
Your questions (including this thread) appear calculated to give that impression and that is what I am objecting to.
Please don't try to lecture me on freedom of thought since the liberals in this country have done their utmost to stifle it or coerce people into following their agenda.

 

[terri]

Please don't try to lecture me on freedom of thought since the liberals in this country have done their utmost to stifle it or coerce people into following their agenda.

Yeah, that's it. Your villian has a name: it's the liberals. :roll:

I haven't seen an actual response to the question posed here. Answering a question with a question is not an answer.

You are now saying that the questions are what you find objectionable. That does not answer them either.

 

[Osmer_Toby]

"why do you think everything the current government does is bad?".

tell ya what, mr sid, you start another thread on this subject and i'll weigh in in detail. for now i'll keep it short, since this is not what my original post was trying to get at. here's your simple answer: i don't.

now, back to the original question, and mr sid, i'd love for you to answer this very question (i truly respect your opinion and your intelligence, i say this sincerely):

why does the us seem to support israel almost 100% in almost every situation?

 

[Osmer_Toby]

Please don't try to lecture me on freedom of thought since the liberals in this country have done their utmost to stifle it or coerce people into following their agenda.

while, as i said above, i respect your intelligence and your opinion, i have to admit i find this statement kinda silly.

still respect ya tho.

peace

 

[mrsid99]

Please don't try to lecture me on freedom of thought since the liberals in this country have done their utmost to stifle it or coerce people into following their agenda.

Yeah, that's it. Your villian has a name: it's the liberals. :roll:

I haven't seen an actual response to the question posed here. Answering a question with a question is not an answer.

You are now saying that the questions are what you find objectionable. That does not answer them either.

It's not even the question I find objectionable, it's the constant raising of liberal garbage, all part of their propaganda campaign.

 

[mrsid99]

Please don't try to lecture me on freedom of thought since the liberals in this country have done their utmost to stifle it or coerce people into following their agenda.

while, as i said above, i respect your intelligence and your opinion, i have to admit i find this statement kinda silly.

still respect ya tho.

peace

Of course you find it silly, it's accurate so what recourse do you have but to be patronizing?