My niece & nephew

lisameowrie · Mar 5, 2015

What can I do to spruce up this photo? I was testing out my new flash over the weekend. It was a huge learning curve. I thought I had sufficient light. These look pretty grainy to me though. It's also my first time editing RAW files. I also don't understand why RAW files are so dull in comparison to JPEG. Here's a before and after. The before to me is dull, but soft. I like the vibrancy of the after, but it's grainy and I don't know how to avoid that. Any input?

goooner · Mar 5, 2015

Can't see a photo.......

lisameowrie · Mar 5, 2015

goooner · Mar 5, 2015

What were your camera settings? I can't see any exif data in the files. Where was the flash?

ronlane · Mar 5, 2015

lisameowrie said:
I also don't understand why RAW files are so dull in comparison to JPEG. Here's a before and after. The before to me is dull, but soft. I like the vibrancy of the after, but it's grainy and I don't know how to avoid that. Any input?

The Raw file is the raw data as collected by the camera and has not been edited at all. The jpeg uses the presets of the camera to edit the file and convert it to jpeg.

crimbfighter · Mar 5, 2015

Cute kiddos! RAW files contain much much more data than a jpeg file. So much so, that it's like a sculptor starting with a raw block of granite. It contains the final sculpture somewhere in there, but there's a bunch of rough stone that needs to be carved away in order for the final, refined sculpture to be seen. Same thing with a RAW file. There's too much data and too many potential directions the final photo can go, so it remains a dull block of granite until the various settings are applied to reveal the desired final image, then, just like throwing away the chipped away stone, the RAW file data not used in the final jpeg is discarded. Hence the much smaller file size.

lisameowrie · Mar 5, 2015

goooner said:
What were your camera settings? I can't see any exif data in the files. Where was the flash?

ISO 8000
22mm
F/13
1/60

Speedlight was mounted on hotshoe and was 45 degrees towards wall facing forward. I also had ambient light sources all around.

Braineack · Mar 5, 2015

8000 iso and f/13 with a speedlight in a small room? why?

I think you went a touch too heavy with the clarity on the edit, and I'd like them to be looking toward you, not away.

you'll avoid the "grain" when you shoot at a much lower ISO.

goooner · Mar 5, 2015

Ok the high ISO is causing the noise. Was your flash set to ETTL/ITTL, or was it in manual mode? I'm sure some of the good 'flashers' on here will be able to help you out :048:

. I'm very new to flash photography myself. I would probably have shot that at f7, and come down with the ISO. Would've upped my SS a to 1/125 as well.

lisameowrie · Mar 5, 2015

I was shooting aperture priority. When I was looking at my monitor, the flash seemed to add the photo. What can I do to fix the clarity issue? I wanted them to look at me. I had people standing off to the side of me and I kept telling them they need to stand behind me, couldn't help that.

lisameowrie · Mar 5, 2015

goooner said:
Ok the high ISO is causing the noise. Was your flash set to ETTL/ITTL, or was it in manual mode? I'm sure some of the good 'flashers' on here will be able to help you out . I'm very new to flash photography myself. I would probably have shot that at f7, and come down with the ISO. Would've upped my SS a to 1/125 as well.

I was in manual mode for the flash. Aperture priority for the camera. I haven't figured out the science of manual yet for my camera. Still learning.

crimbfighter · Mar 5, 2015

Braineack said:
8000 iso and f/13 with a speedlight in a small room? why?

I think you went a touch too heavy with the clarity on the edit, and I'd like them to be looking toward you, not away.

you'll avoid the "grain" when you shoot at a much lower ISO.

Agreed. When you have the benefit of adding light, you should be able to shoot this at a much lower ISO and let the flash power increase to compensate. Also, there's no reason to be going all the way to f/13 on this type of image. There shouldn't be any need to go over f/8, and I'd bet f/5.6 would even do it. By f/13 you are probably actually loosing sharpness to diffraction, depending on your lens..

Regarding ISO, the only time I ever increase my ISO drastically, when using flash that is, is when I'm balancing fill flash with very dim ambient light, and doing it hand held.. Then I might bump it up. But in images where the flash is overpowering just about everything else, I'm usually running at the base ISO. As Braineak mentioned, bringing down your ISO should eleminate that grain.

crimbfighter · Mar 5, 2015

lisameowrie said:
goooner said:

Ok the high ISO is causing the noise. Was your flash set to ETTL/ITTL, or was it in manual mode? I'm sure some of the good 'flashers' on here will be able to help you out . I'm very new to flash photography myself. I would probably have shot that at f7, and come down with the ISO. Would've upped my SS a to 1/125 as well.

Click to expand...

I was in manual mode for the flash. Aperture priority for the camera. I haven't figured out the science of manual yet for my camera. Still learning.

How are you triggering the flash off camera? Depending on the system you are using, it might be very easy set it up for TTL so the camera figures out the flash output for you.

Regarding the clarity, there should be a slider in your post processing application (Lightroom, Photoshop, etc.) which you can adjust. It's hard to tell, but it could just be a bit too much contrast, too, instead of clarity.

Derrel · Mar 5, 2015

First off, you need to stop shooting indoor flash in Aperture Priority Automatic mode...flash needs to be shot in manual mode to make it easier and more consistent, frame to frame, and across parts of an assignment. In Aperture Priority mode, the f/stop choice is critical, and f/13 is a poor choice for this scenario, causing both a high ISO and a slow shutter speed being required to get "the right exposure". The ISO level of 8,000 is just killing the quality. It looks like flash is about 35 to 40 percent of the exposure and ambient light is the majority of the exposure. This is not a winning combination.

A lower ISO level, like ISO 1,000 or so, and a larger aperture, like say f/8, would have helped, with the flash firing with a pretty intense, close to full-power discharge, with the camera set to fully manual mode, would have given really nice exposures and good results. It's simple: Aperture Priority and flash do NOT mix until you are fully, 100% familiar with what that actually means.

Flash shooting is one of the few types of shooting where 100% manual control over the camera's three exposure parameters, (ISO, f/stop,shutter speed) makes getting the best results EASIER than using aperture priority auto. Aperture Priority Auto is fine in daylight, but when flash is added, then there are actually TWO exposures that are being made, and the camera in this case greatly favored the ambient light, with the ISO 8,000 setting being just disastrous. Automatic flash photography in Aperture Priority mode with many cameras will create a positively huuuuuuuuuuuuge range of weird exposure values, far outside the normal range one might expect, and many,many times the settings in A.P. or Programmed Auto flash are just awful, with shutter speeds than can run from 1/250 down to 1/10 second.