need diffuser for fill light, suggestions?

[photosoto]

Hi,

does anyone have any suggestions for a diffuser for a fill light? I've got a simple set up: two speedlights and one umbrella and stand set up right now. But I'm thinking I need something to soften both lights.

can anyone comment on the mini softbox diffusers?

 

[tirediron]

Any translucent plastic will work well. The diffuser I used for this shot was the bottom of a Tupperware dish that happened to be the right size. Milk/water bottles (not the clear ones) work well.

 

[photosoto]

Any translucent plastic will work well. The diffuser I used for this shot was the bottom of a Tupperware dish that happened to be the right size. Milk/water bottles (not the clear ones) work well.

ok thanks

do you think something simple like that will suffice well as a fill light diffuser? I've been shooting thru an umbrella with a bare flash somewhere on the floor and the bare tends to be harsh.

 

[Big Mike]

In it's purest form, fill light shouldn't need to be softened. (I assume you are trying to soften the light, not just diffuse it).

Your key/main light is the one that is used to 'model' your subject....to give it form & depth by creating highlights & shadows. The fill light, on the other hand, shouldn't cause any shadows. It's purpose it to add light to the scene, in order to light the areas that the main light left in shadow....thereby allowing you to control the ratio between the highlights & the shadows.

In other words, you can put the fill light right on the camera axis, thus creating a 'flat' fill light...and it doesn't really have to be a soft light because any shadows that it may create, will be behind the subject where the camera can't see.

If you have the fill light off of the camera axis, it opens the possibility of it casting shadows, which you don't want. So in this case, you want to keep a close watch on the position and the output (and thus the ratio). But yes, if you are going to have the fill light off axis, it can help to have it softened, so that any shadows it may cause, will be softer/smoother.

Lastly, just putting something over the flash head will diffuse the light, but not necessarily soften it. To soften a light, you need to move it closer to the subject or make it physically bigger. That's why we use umbrellas, to enlarge the light source. If you just put a plastic cup over the flash, it may get a tiny bit softer, but really the only softening you get, is if it bounces around the room and reflects off of walls or the ceiling. So to soften your fill light, why not get another umbrella?

 

[Mike_E]

Try bouncing off of a piece of white satin.

You can knock together a frame in no time and be in under $15 for a 3x4 foot reflector. If you want to get fancy then make the frame so that there's a place to attach one of your speedlights directly in front of the satin at a distance that will cover it and then all you have to do is to square up the reflector to the subject (at the appropriate angle of course).

 

[photosoto]

In it's purest form, fill light shouldn't need to be softened. (I assume you are trying to soften the light, not just diffuse it).

Your key/main light is the one that is used to 'model' your subject....to give it form & depth by creating highlights & shadows. The fill light, on the other hand, shouldn't cause any shadows. It's purpose it to add light to the scene, in order to light the areas that the main light left in shadow....thereby allowing you to control the ratio between the highlights & the shadows.

In other words, you can put the fill light right on the camera axis, thus creating a 'flat' fill light...and it doesn't really have to be a soft light because any shadows that it may create, will be behind the subject where the camera can't see.

If you have the fill light off of the camera axis, it opens the possibility of it casting shadows, which you don't want. So in this case, you want to keep a close watch on the position and the output (and thus the ratio). But yes, if you are going to have the fill light off axis, it can help to have it softened, so that any shadows it may cause, will be softer/smoother.

Lastly, just putting something over the flash head will diffuse the light, but not necessarily soften it. To soften a light, you need to move it closer to the subject or make it physically bigger. That's why we use umbrellas, to enlarge the light source. If you just put a plastic cup over the flash, it may get a tiny bit softer, but really the only softening you get, is if it bounces around the room and reflects off of walls or the ceiling. So to soften your fill light, why not get another umbrella?

thank you, very good advice.
I've not really even thought about putting the flash directly on the camera as a fill. I"ve been experimenting more with have both flashes off camera, specifically one in front and one behind the subject but I realize that sometimes I will want both flashes in front.

For instances where I need a fill like the pic below is where I questioned if I needed a diffuser, that is given I'm using a flash and not a reflector... I don't have a reflector yet. For the fill light did you mean shadows on the background?

 

[Derrel]

Big Mike possesses a classic education on lighting and light behavior. His reply above is filled with wisdom from others before him, all trained in how to light, and in how light actually behaves. His reply to you above resonates with me.

One thing I think you might not be clear on is that traditionally, "fill light" is placed right next to the camera,and aimed directly straight ahead. That is how fill lighting has been done for many,many years. Among classically trained shooters, or those who studied lighting formally, this idea of where the fill light was supposed to be, and how it was to be aimed was a given. But now, with the greater number of self-taught people, a new term called "on-axis fill light" has come in to use; you can do Google searches using that search term and get some good results.

Using a second light behind the subject is not "fill light", but is instead rim lighting, or hair lighting, or separation lighting, to use various terms. In the case of the man's shot above, I think it looks a bit unnatural on his ear. In the case of the woman above, a fill light consisting of a speedlight right in the hotshoe would have "filled" the deep shadows on the camera left side of her face and shoulder, and would have really changed the nature of the photo.

But back to your question. If you are using the term fill light as in the shot of the man above, then YES, that flash needs to be softened...it needs to be shot through a fabric panel or bounced from an umbrella or "something", because it appears to be direct, unmodified flash, and it is too "hot". A honeycomb grid, made out of say, black-painted drinking straws, and then diffused with some milk jug in front, for example, makes a very nice, gentle light that can be aimed right at a person, to separate their hair/side from a dark background. THere are ready-made grids like this, sold by Honl, and other internet-based small retailers.

 

[Big Mike]

Big Mike possesses a classic education on lighting and light behavior. His reply above is filled with wisdom from others before him, all trained in how to light, and in how light actually behaves. His reply to you above resonates with me.

Uh Oh....Derrel has been drinking again. :cheers:

 

[Derrel]

Big Mike possesses a classic education on lighting and light behavior. His reply above is filled with wisdom from others before him, all trained in how to light, and in how light actually behaves. His reply to you above resonates with me.

Uh Oh....Derrel has been drinking again. :cheers:

I'm on my third cup of coffee right now!!!

 

[photosoto]

ok thanks for the help very much.

Derrel, I guess I was indirectly throwing a couple things into my question. I was basically wondering whether it be a rim light or fill light if it needed to be diffused. So I gather from the responses is that for on camera axis fill, no, diffusion is not needed but it should be diffused if it is too hot in the case of the rim light in the picture above. Also for simplicity sake would an omni bounce work just as well to tame the harshness? The honeycomb grid with milk jug sounds interesting though, I may try that.

I know I"m throwing a lot of questions out, but do you guys suggest a practice with a fill flash on my camera hotsoe or maybe invest in a reflector for fill so I can use the flash behind the subject for the background or rim light?

thanks for the replies

 

[Derrel]

Fill light does not need to be diffused much, if at all. Hair, separation, or rim-lighting lights usually look their best when they are subtle, and not "hot". Grids are my favorite accessory for creating hair and separation/accent lights. I normally pair a grid with a white mylar diffuser, which looks a lot like milk jug material. The hot, bright "outline" lights we often see in advertising photos on fitness models and athletes and so on, are often made by a matched pair of lights, each fitted with a grid, and aimed at the edges of the model from the side and slightly to the rear of the subject. Keeping the light behind the subject makes sure that it creates a bright "outline" of light and it also keeps the area lighted that way physically very small. The grid accessory is what helps control the light when aiming it precisely like that; light can also be narrowed down using a snoot, but the effect is "different", and not the same.

I'll tell you one thing photosoto: based on what I have seen of your efforts, you're far ahead of many people in terms of speedlight lighting, and I think you would benefit tremendously by having a three- or four-light studio light setup at your disposal. You could use three or four lights, and make the shots you're doing look very good. Even with what minimal equipment you have at your disposal currently, you seem to have a knack for lighting.

 

[kundalini]

I like grids and snoots for hair/rim/accent lights. I don't have a set of barndoors yet, but they're on the list. Here is one of my examples.

 

[photosoto]

I found a tuturial on how to make a grid. I'll probably try to do that.

And thank you Derrell for the compliment. I feel kinda in the dark with this lighting stuff, but that makes me want to push forward.