New Adobe upgrade pricing policy

[cgipson1]

Compared to some of the software licenses my clients use... Adobe products are a very small drop in a very large bucket! Even other "expensive" apps like Autocad are cheap if they make you money! I don't consider the price for CS5 unreasonable. Try Citrix Xenapp! Ouch!

I do feel that software thieves have driven up prices and inconvenienced all of the honest users that do pay for the products, by forcing many companies to try to combat the theft with copy protection and really strict licensing measures! A thief is a thief, whether what they still is $20 or $2000! Still a thief!

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

Every couple months this comes up. First off, thanks to KMH for making this info known. It should also be stressed, that they are not saying that you cannot upgrade, they are just saying that you can't leap frog 3 editions of software unless you want to pay the price. Why is it that you can't tell people any useful info on here anymore without everyone starting a big debate? If this is in fact terrible news and a poor reflection on Adobe ( as Derrel insinuates) then wouldn't that be sort of a contradiction to the claim that KMH is some big biased Photoshop fanboy? I mean, wouldn't he try to sugar coat something that is obviously going to piss off people?

I know plenty of people who love Photoshop, would never want to live without it, who make plenty of money to buy Photoshop, but don't because one of their friends "gave" it to them. Those people would definitely buy the software if they had no other choice. If there was a way for Adobe to send out some kind of virus that wiped out every pirated version of their software, are you telling me that a good amount of people wouldn't purchase their products? Software pirates DO effect a companies revenue. True Adobe didn't spend on distributing an actual physical product that they had stolen, but writing software, advertising software, and paying for R&D all costs money. People fail to look at the big picture. I completely disagree with the notion that those who pirate software would not buy it if they did not have the option to pirate. Sure, maybe some people pirating Photoshop may not purchase Photoshop in that scenario, due to the cost, but they may in turn purchase Elements of Lightroom instead. All of this effects Adobes bottom line.

 

[unpopular]

Sorry, I don't actually keep up with whatever you post like a dedicated fan would, so I've missed it.

Aww. If you're not my dedicated fan would would be

(sorry, didn't mean it like that)

In any case, do you think the copying of photos without permission is therefore a valid means of obtaining them for someone who doesn't want to pay?

No, not at all. But say you are a photographer with a piracy problem. You'd have a few options about how to deal with that problem.

You could do what the record industry did and take everyone to court. We all know what a great PR opportunity that was.

You could raise your prices to offset lost potential, making access to your product even harder for those who cannot justify it's expense and possibly even loosing customers along the way and creating a market for competitors.

You could lower the price point so that people are less inclined to steal. Some people always will, but they're the ones stealing currently.

I'm not a pragmatist or anything ... but I think it's best to ask yourself what you're doing to provoke a negative situation before blaming everyone else.

But do they make that claim?

I am really not sure, though I am not sure it even really matters if that's the common perception of the matter.

Raising the cost of upgrades in an economic slump seems pretty stupid, especially when you're primary business is involved in advertising and media.

 

[cgipson1]

I say we catch all of the thieves and use them for fertilizer! Kind of like a Soylent Green thing! That would solve a lot of economic issues too... if you think about it! It would also ease traffic congestion somewhat, and there would be a lot fewer annoying punks around! lol! (j/k)!

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

You could lower the price point so that people are less inclined to steal. Some people always will, but they're the ones stealing currently.

.

So you let thieves dictate the value of your work? No offense, but that is the dumbest thing that I have heard in quite a while.

The reason the RIAA tactic did not work, is because most of the people they were suing, couldn't afford the fines anyway. Just like Adobe would have an even larger loss on its hand if it tried to litigate every single person that stole its software. You can't squeeze blood from a stone.

As for stealing your photos, it would be the same thing. The fact is, that if enough people stole your photos, you wouldn't have the time or the money to litigate them all especially if you did not register the copyright. However, that does not mean that common morals and decency shouldn't exist. I wouldn't steal a Ferrari just because I could never afford to drive one. Its an idiotic excuse for people to not have to be responsible, decent people and do whats right.

As for raising the price ( and bleeding a cow dry as Derrel's analogy goes ) that is why this is geared towards professionals who not only have a steady revenue stream to budget for this software, but they also set their prices based on their overhead. If every photographer has to pay $100 more every couple years for photoshop due to piracy, then that cost is going to be handed down to their customers. So in essence, it doesn't matter much to them. The people it hurts, are the honest paying customers who AREN'T professionals, but trying to get to that point.

 

[thereyougo!5 1]

thereyougo! - are you quite sure that the tax is 20%? I know that whilst the VAT is 20%, there are also many specific exceptions to that rule which operate under lower or higher tax bands based on the product type.

I'm VAT registered through my main occupation. There is only ONE VAT rate and that is 20%.

 

[unpopular]

You could lower the price point so that people are less inclined to steal. Some people always will, but they're the ones stealing currently..

So you let thieves dictate the value of your work? No offense, but that is the dumbest thing that I have heard in quite a while.

A product is worth what people are willing to pay. This is business, not the locker room, it's not about egos.

If your price point is costing you profit, you need to cut your price point or find some way to make it worth the money you're charging.

Nothing I am saying here has anything to do with ethics. At the end of the day it's not about what is right or wrong, it's about profit. I don't care whose right or wrong. I agree, copyright infringement is wrong, of course it is - but what is that sentiment going to do? I don't steal software and I pay for the media I use and enjoy. But that doesn't mean I'm going to feel sorry for companies who don't pull up their big boy underwear and find ways to manage their problems effectively.

Say for a long time you never locked your doors and you often had parties which you'd permits guests to bring people you don't know. Then you got robbed. Your practices contributed significantly to the robbery, but this doesn't mean that the robbery was justified. A smart person would start locking their doors. Adobe OTOH has more parties

 

[2WheelPhoto]

Dave Cross of NAPP/Adobe gave me some free photoshop time at his studio here in Tampa, and I'm really liking doing business with adobe. I hope to meet Scott Kelby too, he lives over in Clearwater. As a nooB maybe just shaking hands with both of them will rocket speed my photography learning nooB goals

 

[thereyougo!5 1]

What in heavens name are you on about? Adobe has nothing to do with additional charges your government adds.All professional grade software has a price, and Adobe's is some of the least expensive professional grade software available.

Two things- yes government sets the taxation. UK government has set it at 20%. Why then does Adobe charge me 22%? That is profiteering. And very much Adobe's fault. When tax was 15% Adobe charged me 20% when I chose to download CS4. Secondly Adobe charges UK customers the equivalent of $856 for CS5 in the uk. It's the same product at a 20% premium. This isn't uncommon. There is a phrase called Rip-off Britain for a reason. Levi jeans cost around $40 in the US it's around 3x that in the UK. The American parent companies hound out suppliers that try to sell it cheaper in the UK. My main beef is Adobe collecting more tax than they are legally allowed to do. In my book that is fraud. Yet they have repeatedly ignored my emails. That is indefensible

Except you forget that the UK has over 14,000 classifications for Customs Duty and VAT tax. There is no one rate. That may be why they ignore your e-mails.

I'm sorry but you know the UK tax system as well as I know NJ tax. Which isn't a lot. There is only ONE rate of VAT which is chargeable on goods of this sort. Alcohol, fuel and tobacco are subject to duty as well as VAT. Software is subject to only VAT and not duty. When I charge for my services in the UK I have to charge VAT which is paid to Customs and excise. My services are not subject to Duty so I don't charge for that. Irrespective of this there is no excuse for Adobe repeatedly ignoring emails. I'm puzzled as to why you guys defend a body that overcharges and also ignores emails when challenged. Of course it could be an error on their part and their ignorance of my emails could be sheer ineptitude. Who knows? What is clear is that they are charging more VAT than they are allowed to. My accountant has confirmed this a fact that has been drawn to Adobe's attention which they choose to ignore.

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

You could lower the price point so that people are less inclined to steal. Some people always will, but they're the ones stealing currently..

So you let thieves dictate the value of your work? No offense, but that is the dumbest thing that I have heard in quite a while.

A product is worth what people are willing to pay. This is business, not the locker room, it's not about egos.

I would have to disagree. A product is worth what it costs to make. Sure, some companies may undercut competition at a loss in order to jumpstart business, but this is not sustainable. Show me a business that sells all of its products at a loss or at a profit that prohibits growth, and I will show you a company that will not be around very long.

 

[jake337]

Compared to some of the software licenses my clients use... Adobe products are a very small drop in a very large bucket! Even other "expensive" apps like Autocad are cheap if they make you money! I don't consider the price for CS5 unreasonable. Try Citrix Xenapp! Ouch!

I do feel that software thieves have driven up prices and inconvenienced all of the honest users that do pay for the products, by forcing many companies to try to combat the theft with copy protection and really strict licensing measures! A thief is a thief, whether what they still is $20 or $2000! Still a thief!

I'm not getting into this debate, but how much does Citrix Zenapp run. The company I work for uses it for our logistics. Just wondering.

 

[cgipson1]

Compared to some of the software licenses my clients use... Adobe products are a very small drop in a very large bucket! Even other "expensive" apps like Autocad are cheap if they make you money! I don't consider the price for CS5 unreasonable. Try Citrix Xenapp! Ouch!

I do feel that software thieves have driven up prices and inconvenienced all of the honest users that do pay for the products, by forcing many companies to try to combat the theft with copy protection and really strict licensing measures! A thief is a thief, whether what they still is $20 or $2000! Still a thief!

I'm not getting into this debate, but how much does Citrix Zenapp run. The company I work for uses it for our logistics. Just wondering.

From the XenApp site... a 5 user license for the really basic (small business) version is around $1300.00 or so.. then you multiply that by the number of users that need access. Once you get to Enterprise Level software $2500, or Platinum level $5000 , you then add in Microsoft terminal server CALS for the needed access numbers. This doesn't include the heavy duty hardware or VM Farm needed to make this software perform.

 

[unpopular]

Doesn't IBM SPSS cost like $5k/year? Even the student version is like $100+/6mo.

I would have to disagree. A product is worth what it costs to make.

There are lots of things that cost more to make than what people are willing to pay, but these products don't exist on the market. I really do not think that is the case here, though. I am pretty certain that adobe could sell products at a fraction of what they are charging and still make a profit.

There will always be some theft, my point is though that increasing the problem that leads to theft in the first place will make matters worse in a number of ways. I think Adobe knows this, and if they don't then it's off to the glue factory.

Sure, some companies may undercut competition at a loss in order to jumpstart business, but this is not sustainable.

Or legal. At least in the US.

Show me a business that sells all of its products at a loss or at a profit that prohibits growth, and I will show you a company that will not be around very long.

If there is no price bracket that can prevent theft and make a profit, then theft is going to occur. Wal-Mart knows this. I am pretty sure Adobe knows it too. But if those efforts are costing you more than what you could realistically recover, the effort doesn't make sense. No matter how unethical theft is.

Sure Wal-Mart could post a 24-hour security guard every 15 feet and drop theft to virtually zero. But how much would it cost.

 

[Overread20]

thereyougo! - are you quite sure that the tax is 20%? I know that whilst the VAT is 20%, there are also many specific exceptions to that rule which operate under lower or higher tax bands based on the product type.

I'm VAT registered through my main occupation. There is only ONE VAT rate and that is 20%.

I was sure that there were variations on the VAT amount based on the product type; I'm aware that there are some exceptions from VAT (like books) but I recall reading of there being lower boundaries on some goods; ie having their own VAT rate. This was around the time that adding books and food to VAT was being suggested so maybe those ideas of lower levels of VAT were only valid in those contexts, but I was sure there were others already in existence.

EDIT: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/goods-services.htm

varied VAT amounts and more details Though no mention of higher rates so unless Adobe was adding some import costs or something they shouldn't be charging VAT at 22%.

 

[GooniesNeverSayDie11]

Doesn't IBM SPSS cost like $5k/year? Even the student version is like $100+/6mo.

I would have to disagree. A product is worth what it costs to make.

There are lots of things that cost more to make than what people are willing to pay, but these products don't exist on the market.

Exactly my point. The company doesn't lower its price and say "oh, we want to expand into other software and lines of business using our profit, but too bad, lets keep making this overly expensive product and selling it at what people WANT to pay, and see how that works out for us" It doesn't happen. Piracy will occur no matter what, the only way to combat it is to recoup that loss in your prices. Just as you point out, its a lost cause trying to stop all of the pirates. I am sure if this upgrade policy harmed them significantly, they would re-assess as any business would.

Also, if price is the main driver of piracy, then why do people pirate Elements and Lightroom as well? So lets say for a minute that Photoshop drops it price to $300 dollars to appease crooks. It will STILL get pirated. So the only course of action is to either bend over and take it, or try and make back what you can by adding some of that loss into your cost. Adobe chooses the latter, and that is their choice.