New camera help

[JohnYoung]

I have a Nikon D90 at the moment and its a good camera but I thought I would upgrade and hopefully get something a little better at the high ISO levels as I find the D90 has a fair bit of noise at 1600-32000

I have been looking at

Nikon D5100
Nikon D7000
Sony DSLR ?
Pentax DSLR ? (I read good reviews on the K-R and K-5)

Am I right that the D5100 has the same sensor as the D7000 so the extra expense of the D7000 is for a few extra bits like front and back command wheel (like that on my D90)

I read that the Nikon D7000 has a fair bit of noise/grain at higher ISO levels

Is there a Sony that can take Nikon lenses or did I imagine that ?

Anyone recommend me a DSLR that is good at high ISO and is around the £500-£700 mark

 

[MLeeK]

The D5100 would be more of a lateral/downgrade, so that leaves you to the D7000 which isn't THAT much of an upgrade.
Maybe sell the D90 and add it to the budget? A d300S or the new D600 would be an actual upgrade, but you aren't going to get a major improvement in ISO performance with the D7000. A little, maybe.
You imagined the Sony with Nikon lenses and you still aren't getting into major ISO performance at that budget in Sony.
Double your max budget is you want a real improvement in ISO handling

 

[fjrabon]

The D5100 would be more of a lateral/downgrade, so that leaves you to the D7000 which isn't THAT much of an upgrade.
Maybe sell the D90 and add it to the budget? A d300S or the new D600 would be an actual upgrade, but you aren't going to get a major improvement in ISO performance with the D7000. A little, maybe.
You imagined the Sony with Nikon lenses and you still aren't getting into major ISO performance at that budget in Sony.
Double your max budget is you want a real improvement in ISO handling

Well, the D7000 outperforms the D300 in high ISO noise (as it does nearly every crop frame in the market except perhaps the D3200)

Your options are:
Full frame D600 or D800 which would obviously both be a huge upgrade, but also a LARGE expense.

D7000: which would be a decent, but not huge upgrade in most every way. It's substantially better than the D90 in all aspects of sensor performance, including high ISO. Marginal, but noticeable upgrade in build quality.

D300s:
Small upgrade in sensor performance, huge upgrade in build quality and shooting speed. Best autofocus system of any crop frame camera ever (and better than most full frames). Sensor isn't as good as the D7000/D5100, but it isn't way worse either. Costs more than d7000.

 

[Derrel]

The D600's low-light, high ISO performance score is right in line with that of the D4. 24MP on FX puts you right at the VERY TOP of sensor performance...

Here is a screen cap I made of some comparisons at the DxO Mark web site.

 

[Derrel]

The D600's low-light, high ISO performance score is right in line with that of the D4. 24MP on FX puts you right at the VERY TOP of sensor performance...

View attachment 24476Here is a screen cap I made of some comparisons at the DxO Mark web site. At the price point you are after, a used D7000 is going to be "it", I think. last week I saw a D7000 for $675 US used, and one at $775 used with a grip.

 

[JohnYoung]

Thanks everyone...Hmmm so that has got me thinking. I was originally going to save for a D600 but when I read reviews on the D7000 It said the D7000 was excellent in low light etc. That's what got me thinking and it was a LOT cheaper than the D600. But if the D7000 is a sideways move maybe I should wait and save and see what Nikon brings out... I heard they are bringing out a D400 and a D5200 maybe they might be worth looking at

 

[orb9220]

Well my D90 just passed 67,000 clicks and for the most part sates my desire for the D7000. And since you didn't mention glass you are using with it. Better and faster glass will breathe new life and usability into any camera.

My first 3200 iso handheld impressed me as little in the way of noise.
Which I could have applied NR in post to this image to eliminate all if not most.
Of the little noise that is starting to appear if you pixel peep it.


Heading Home by Orbmiser, on Flickr

Even using a kit type lens 55-200vr as long as you nail exposure and
don't underexpose image will help minimize noise.
And there is always NR tools to help with that.


Trip to the Wildwood - Zoo underground Max station by Orbmiser, on Flickr

I find most of the complaints of noise is user forced to underexpose. Either using a slower variable f-stop lens or light is just to low for handheld shots. Tho a D7000 will give you another 2-stops in handheld usability and another stop in increased dynamic range.

Also nice is the fine tune feature for dialing in lens that isn't behaving optimally with body pair up. Or the metering of older manual Ai or Ai-s lenses is a nice feature I would like to have in my tool bag.

I mean if I had the cash then would even do a side move to a used D300 for those features and still be a happy camper. As rarely have a need for a lot of low light work. When I do that is where flash or tripod comes in handy.
.

 

[fjrabon]

The move from a D90 to a D7000 may or may not be worth the money, but in no way, shape or form is it a 'sideways move'. The D7000 was basically the replacement for the D90, and is better in pretty much every single way.

 

[JohnYoung]

Hmmm... more confusion for me. Some say sideways others say not..... (on this forum and others)


As far as lenses go I don't have loads but I have the:

Nikon 18-105 VR (D90 Kit lens)
Nikon 80-200 F2.8
Sigma 24-60 F2.8
50mm F1.8

 

[MLeeK]

The D7000 will be an improvement, but if you don't learn to SHOOT FOR and process high ISO images and remove noise properly it won't make you happy.

It's kind of like my 7D. I hear people screaming about the high ISO noise issues, however I have no problems with it. I expose ETTR and I use Adobe Raw in CS6 to remove the noise that is there. I did the same with my 50D which I'd guesstimate performs somewhere in the vicinity of your D90-give or take. I shot at ISO 12800 with it successfully. I wouldn't use it for a portrait session, but I did use it for weddings and sports successfully. Not my money shots in weddings and not the ones that would be blown up to epic sizes, but album worthy images.

My 7D is an improvement over what the 50D was, but if I were whining about the noise in the 50D I would definitely not have been happy with the noise in the 7D either.

So.... it's all relative to YOU and how well you can work the tool you have.
Personally? I'd wait for the upgrade to the D600 to make it a serious upgrade.

 

[KmH]

Nikon's D7000 redefined what a top-of-the-segment entry-level camera is capable of doing. But it still lacks many of the features and functions Prosumer grade Nikon cameras have. It's not just about the MP and the ISO.

Nikon has now added a full frame entry-level camera, the D600. The D600 is the new top-of-the-segment Nikon entry-level camera.

 

[JohnYoung]

The D7000 will be an improvement, but if you don't learn to SHOOT FOR and process high ISO images and remove noise properly it won't make you happy.

It's kind of like my 7D. I hear people screaming about the high ISO noise issues, however I have no problems with it. I expose ETTR and I use Adobe Raw in CS6 to remove the noise that is there. I did the same with my 50D which I'd guesstimate performs somewhere in the vicinity of your D90-give or take. I shot at ISO 12800 with it successfully. I wouldn't use it for a portrait session, but I did use it for weddings and sports successfully. Not my money shots in weddings and not the ones that would be blown up to epic sizes, but album worthy images.

My 7D is an improvement over what the 50D was, but if I were whining about the noise in the 50D I would definitely not have been happy with the noise in the 7D either.

So.... it's all relative to YOU and how well you can work the tool you have.
Personally? I'd wait for the upgrade to the D600 to make it a serious upgrade.

Yeah I can process for noise and remove it quite well and my D90 will shoot to 1600 with good results. I suppose I just wanted a camera where I can forget about noise, on the D90 I do have to keep it in mind and sometimes overide the auto ISO or shoot in RAW to stop the ISO going sky high leaving me with images that have to much noise

Nikon's D7000 redefined what a top-of-the-segment entry-level camera is capable of doing. But it still lacks many of the features and functions Prosumer grade Nikon cameras have. It's not just about the MP and the ISO.

Nikon has now added a full frame entry-level camera, the D600. The D600 is the new top-of-the-segment Nikon entry-level camera.

Yeah I was actually originally saving for the D600 when the D7000 caught my eye and I read some excellent reviews on it. Some video reviews on youtube absolutely raved about the D7000 and its ability in low light.

 

[KmH]

At least compared to other cameras in its category. Plus there is the issue of online reviews and the influence of 'confirmation bias'.

The D600 and the newer Nikon prosumer & pro full frame cameras leave the D7000 in the dust when it comes to ISO performance.
DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

 

[fjrabon]

At least compared to other cameras in its category. Plus there is the issue of online reviews and the influence of 'confirmation bias'.

The D600 and the newer Nikon prosumer & pro full frame cameras leave the D7000 in the dust when it comes to ISO performance.
DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

Yeah, I think some of the issue here is coming from comparing the D7000 to other crop frame cameras, where its better than everything out there (with the possible exception of the D3200, which has the very newest crop sensor on the market) and then comparing it to things like the D600, which is a full frame, newly issued camera that costs twice as much. Sure the D600 leaves the D7000 in the dust, but they aren't meant to be competitors either.

 

[JohnYoung]

Well looking at those side by side comparisons on a camera costing twice as much (D600) the scores aren't that great unless I miss-read them


But you cannot compare a D7000 to a D600. One is £1500 the other £650