New look

[snowbear]

If it were me I'd switch everything to the old school bulletin board style.

Just for funsies.

. . . and figure out how to use EDLIN to post!

 

[Buckster]

I was curious about this. Do people dim the monitors when they visit google.com or yahoo.com? They are even brighter than this site?

Well, yer bathroom is prob'ly as bright as you can stand it too, but you don't spend a lot of time in there. When you go to your office/livingroom/wherever you relax and spend more time, that room is much less bright than your bathroom. Same with Google - I go there, do my business quick and get out. Google's brightness is not an issue. All the websites and forums I spend the majority of my time... they aren't anything like Google.

In your defense though, as a webmaster, I want to say to the one or 3 people who seem to think the priority here is what search engines thing about the site, you couldn't be further from the truth. I have no doubt the admins and techs here are working hard to make their members happy and comfortable so they keep posting content. But that content is useless unless it can be shared with all the other photographers out there in the ether. That is Google's and other search engines' job. If you don't follow certain guidelines, then you pay a penalty - fewer indexed pages, fewer visitors, fewer of everything this website has to offer. It's not a private club.

Jim

Oh, please. This site was bought by the current owners to make money. They do it through ad placement, and that's where Google comes in and why it's so important to them. The new owners haven't demonstrated any real interest in photography at all, from what I've seen over the years. They probably own all kinds of forums on all kinds of topics.

From the comments by the mods we interact with everyday around here, they weren't even told it was coming, let alone consulted for suggestions on the possible changes. And you think they really care about what the rest of us think? As long as they can smooth out the bugs and complaints, we'll get what they decide to give.

As for the interface, I think photo-oriented sites, including forums like this, should take a hint from Photoshop and Lightroom and at least OFFER a dark interface as an option. My favorite photo forum does, and it's GREAT for looking at photos and reading without getting eyestrain.

I notice also that the wording for using the old interface via the "red" option implies that it's only temporarily available to us, until they feel satisfied that they got it how they want it. So, I wouldn't get too used to it.

But, whatever...

 

[del fox]

i like it

 

[terri]

From the comments by the mods we interact with everyday around here, they weren't even told it was coming, let alone consulted for suggestions on the possible changes. And you think they really care about what the rest of us think? As long as they can smooth out the bugs and complaints, we'll get what they decide to give.

Pretty unfair. Point A: let's remember that this IS just a new skin. Why? Point B: Let's recall the screaming and fetal position-taking that transpired back when we went from vBulletin to XenForo. The guys read through the discussions and acted on a lot of suggestions, and have now just tried to come up with something more fresh. You still have the option to use the first XF skin, if you'd like. It was pretty unpopular when it was first rolled out; now suddenly we're hearing it's actually not so bad. So go for it! Most forums I participate in welcome a certain variety of skins, because what works for some folks with certain devices doesn't work as well for others. Choices! Good!

The owners aren't obligated to inform us of anything; it IS a business, they operate a lot of forums and do their best to make them look good, be user-friendly while keeping costs down. Sure, they bought the place to make money. They bought it from the guy who started it, whose objective was also to make money. What of it?

It's discouraging to read the instant demonizing of the techs and owners over simple things that happen every day, when they're really a group of nice people who are running a business, while providing us a great place to come talk about our particular passion.

 

[vintagesnaps]

It's not just the skin, besides the fonts, the whole thing is sized/laid out differently, and as I said in this thread or the other one, it's not usable this way. I find it harder to read, and I tried it in Red and it didn't go back to what we had before, it was sized even smaller. (Now I can't find how to change it to Red, I'm getting whatever this is, Blue I guess.)

My example was the section Photography Beginner's Forum, where it says 'Don't be shy.' ... and ends ...'metering modes, focusing modes.' The text has been resized and is now - 33 lines of text. It's longer than my laptop screen! The sizing just isn't workable like this.
(edit - Going back to the main forum page, that section is back to whatever I said before, 45 lines of text?!)

The last change was not an improvement for many of us, and this is obviously worse. I don't understand it being changed to something even less user friendly.

 

[Buckster]

Predictable.

The preference for the "red" interface is simply between it and this new one, not one of all three including the vBulletin one before it. Give the members the option of choosing the vBulletin as well, and see what happens.

Will the "red" remain an option to the users going forward? Their wording indicates that it's only "in the meantime" until they work out the bugs.

Their direct answer to "why" the change wasn't "just tried to come up with something more fresh". It was to appease Google.

You're right, the owners aren't obligated to inform anyone here of anything, and they don't. In fact, there seems to be no interaction with them at all, even with you daily site mods and admins. I've suspected all along that's why the suggestion forum just gets answers formed as excuses why nearly every suggestion from the members here can't, shouldn't and won't be implemented.

It's a lot like they don't really care about the site itself or photography as a subject, as long as lots of people keep clicking to refresh all the pages with ads on them, which you've now basically confirmed when you agreed with me that it IS just a way to make money to them.

Don't get me wrong; I don't begrudge them that, and I'm not "demonizing" them or the techs making the changes. I'm just acknowledging the reality of it all, and like it or not, you're confirming it. They're not here for us. We're here for them.

The participation by the members who are reading and writing and clicking are what make this site worth having to them. I think that should be enough to behoove them to give us a listen, to have a chat with us before springing something like this on everyone, including the site mods and admins, to give a head's up and have a dialogue about the things we members would really like and respond to by reading, writing and clicking even more.

That's just good business where I come from.

 

[mmaria]

wtf!!!?

oh well...

changed to the red skin...

bye bye

 

[JimMcClain]

The preference for the "red" interface is simply between it and this new one, not one of all three including the vBulletin one before it. Give the members the option of choosing the vBulletin as well, and see what happens.

You don't understand... vBulletin is a forum software - the software TPF used before they installed the new software, XenForo. Two different companies, two different products. You will not be able to have a selection/choice to use vBulletin or XenForo on TPF because there can only be one forum software. This site uses XF.

Will the "red" remain an option to the users going forward? Their wording indicates that it's only "in the meantime" until they work out the bugs.

Not every business decision is a home run. They seem to be listening to the most reasoned voices and trying to make the changes users will like.

Their direct answer to "why" the change wasn't "just tried to come up with something more fresh". It was to appease Google.

Like all business decisions, there is more than one answer. You got one and now you are making like it is the one and only reason. Maybe it is what you WANT to believe so it can justify your rants and distaste of the new theme design.

You're right, the owners aren't obligated to inform anyone here of anything, and they don't. In fact, there seems to be no interaction with them at all, even with you daily site mods and admins.

You would have no direct knowledge of that, now would you? No private business that I am aware of allows its customers to attend company meetings. This forum, like most, probably has a private, staff only forum where they discuss the administration of this site. The owners may be participating there without you knowing about it.

It's a lot like they don't really care about the site itself or photography as a subject, as long as lots of people keep clicking to refresh all the pages with ads on them, which you've now basically confirmed when you agreed with me that it IS just a way to make money to them.

I don't believe in mind readers. You prob'ly ain't one. You don't know the owner's motivations any more than I do, but at least I have 20 some odd years of forum/message board administration under my belt. One of the forums I admin is a hunting forum. I don't hunt. I don't participate on that forum. I have an admin on my own forum that doesn't participate - he's the owner of the hunting forum and has agreed to take over my flooring forum when I die (advanced lung disease - it's inevitable)... He has no experience or interest in flooring (except those in his own home), but he is a very wise businessman. He will keep my vision alive and make money at it.

Don't get me wrong; I don't begrudge them that, and I'm not "demonizing" them or the techs making the changes.

Oh, yes you do... yes you are. Read your own posts.

Jim

 

[goooner]

I changed back to the red skin, and everything looks like last week. I might play around with the new skin over the weekend, but I like the red skin.

 

[weepete]

As long as the basic functionality remains I'm not fussed about skins.I'll get used to it in a short while.

One of the better things that's been implemented in this change is the active topics option takes you to recent posts. That's grand.

I agree with Buckster though, a dark option would be really good and a bigger benefit for looking at pics.

I'm here for the content though, so I don't care all that much about the look.

 

[pgriz]

So far, switching between the two skins, I find the red version preferable, for the following reasons:

• the posts are clearly separated with a clear horizontal bar, so it's easier to see where each posts starts and ends.
• the font used is not particularly elegant (it's nicer on the blue skin), but I'm used to it. As for size and readability, I use the browser's (Chrome) display magnification feature and depending on the site, use it at 100% to 150%, as needed. TPF (red skin) is at 125% for comfortable reading for me.
• the shading used for comment text background, quote text background, signature text background and post text background is somewhat easier to recognize in the red skin,
• the option bar that appears above the post is grey in the blue skin and coloured in the red skin, and I find the coloured bar easier to recognize.
• The options (Post reply/upload a file/More Options) at the end of the post are easier to read in the red skin because the Post Reply is coloured, with the other two options visible, but not as prominent. I find the blue skin gives all three options equal visual weight, and makes for a clunkier appearance.

The neutral aspects (again, for me) are:

• Appearance of the avatar icons - don't care much either way.
• The controls (tabs, short-cuts) are arranged differently, but it seems everything I learned to use in the Red skin is there in the Blue skin, so it's a matter of learning what's where.

The positive aspects to the blue skin are:

• the font is nicer

Overall, I certainly can get used to the new skin, but when I go to a place like TPF, I like to focus on the content, and having the appearance and the arrangements of controls change is somewhat disorienting. On the other hand, some of the new features of the new software, such as being able to display an image in full size directly from upload is nicer than the old way. The various ways of rating a post (beyond a simple like) is also more fun. The ability to see who gave the rating is actually useful, as it allows one to paint a picture of each poster in terms of their reactions to other posts - that can be even more revealing than the posts by the poster themselves.

I also understand the business dynamic at play here: We the posters supply the content, which attracts eyeballs, which attracts ads, which then generate revenue for the site owners. Ultimately, however, the content supplied by the various posters AND THE QUALITY OF THE PARTICIPANTS is what makes the site interesting and fun to visit. That last one is a hard one - how do you attract the posters who give useful, informative and insightful posts while still injecting some humour, sassiness and playfulness that makes any interaction between humans interestng? By the same token, posters who are trollish, argumentative, disrespectful and unpleasant are poison to the forum and it is up to the moderators to keep these to some tolerable level. So this site seems to be trying hard to strike that balance.

 

[runnah]

Take deep breaths everyone, it will be ok!

 

[Rick58]

why? It's liking going to a grocery store and they change the isles...Why?

 

[Designer]

why? It's liking going to a grocery store and they change the isles...Why?

Ha, ha, Rick58, that happens here, too. I routinely write my shopping list to go in order of my walk through the store. Then when they change everything around, I have to re-learn the new layout.

The why is, presumably, to get people to visit every aisle. And to keep food out of the soap aisle.

 

[mmaria]

I feel like lots of so much has changed here...

I like your new avatar J