New to MF - New to forum - which way to go...

birket · Jan 4, 2013

Asked a thousand times, but here we go again:

I've been a keen photographer for a long time, coming from 35mm film years ago with Canon SLRs, through to digital compacts and dSLRs and also mirrorless interchangeable cameras (the last one just rolls off the tongue doesn't it??). I have found that my Sigma cameras (a DP1 and an SD10 - and for a time, the SD15) have given me the best shots. These cameras tended to slow me down and consider my shots more. Looking back at my old 35mm slide photos, most, if not all shots were - IMO - good shots...keepers. More recently, with digital cameras being so instant, I have taken so many shots that I rarely even look at them any more.

I have a mind to get a medium format camera. Slow down my photography taking and get back to the fundamentals. 12 shots per roll sounds very attractive to me. I can take the camera on a day trip and shoot a roll specific to that trip. I will not give up on digital. Digital will always be my main method. But at times where I want to do something a bit different - a bit special - I will try my hand with MF.

So, which direction to go?

I started looking at TLR cameras, thinking it a relatively inexpensive entry into MF. Then I started researching and found that the Rolleiflex TLR f2.8 cameras were some of the better ones. They are quite expensive though, and good ones do not come up very often. I then 'discovered' the Hasselblad 500CM. Wow! I want that camera. I love the back-to-basics, clunkiness of it. Problem is, even more expensive! This is so common with me. I end up spending far more on something than I should. I guess that if I did plunge for the Hassy 500 it will hold its value so I can re-sell it if I find MF not for me, or if I find it is just a fad.

Is this a common dilemma? Guidance would be appreciated.

Buckster · Jan 4, 2013

I didn't find it to be a dilemma at all. I started with a MF desire, a tripod, a Sekonic meter, and a budget, then plugged it with what I considered a decent MF camera that fit that budget.

Turned out that was a Mamiya C330 TLR that I found on eBay for $80 and absolutely fell in love with. It came with two lenses, a waist level finder as well as a prism finder, a grip, and a cool 1970's wide hippy camera strap. Everything works great on it, bellows are light tight, photos come out great. I couldn't be happier. My first shots with it were just a couple weeks after I got it, when my Canon 40D popped up with an err99 and got sent to Canon repair, leaving me only my film cameras. Rather than use the 35mm cameras from my film days, I decided to use the C330, and it passed with flying colors (actually, I shot B&W and developed it in my bathroom, but you get the idea...)

Here it is, along with one of the first shots I got with it:

After getting my MF feet wet with the C330, I wanted a MF camera with an even larger negative and more features, so I set my sights on and started watching for deals on Mamiya RB67 cameras within another budget limit I'd set for myself. Didn't take long and one came along on eBay that had 2 lenses, 3 backs, a nice Mamiya case designed for it, and more. I bought it, everything again works perfectly, and the quality from it is outstanding. I love this thing.

Then, while in a camera store buying a Canon 7D, I saw in their used case a Mamiya 645 Pro, and asked about it. It was in pristine condition, included a grip/winder, prism and fresh batteries. The price was low, so I bought it along with the 7D. Again, everything works perfectly, the quality of the prints is awesome, and I couldn't be happier.

Then I saw what I considered a deal on a Hasselblad 500C system in a beautiful case, with 3 lenses, filters, grip - the whole shebang. I couldn't resist. Perfect working order and everything you'd expect in quality from it. It was much more than I'd paid for the Mamiyas, but at the time I had a pocket full of extra cash, so that didn't matter, and I got an awesome camera and a bit of history that I will no doubt enjoy using for a long time to come.

I mostly shoot my digital cameras, currently a Canon 5DMKII and a Canon 7D, with the Canon 40D as a backup. But it's nice to drop back, load some MF film into one of the Mamiyas or the Hassy once in a while, and just go back in time a little and FEEL the shooting experience.

Since you mentioned that some things you're looking at are out of your budget, maybe you should tell us about what your budget actually is, and some of the more knowledgeable folks here can then help steer you in a good direction. There a plenty of outstanding MF cameras out there in the used market these days to choose from, in pretty much every budget there is. Besides eBay, there's Craigslist and KEH and a few others that folks who chime in here will be able to tell you more about.

birket · Jan 4, 2013

Thanks for your reply - a very interesting read. My budget is 'flexible', but I really don't want to get carried away. I guess when I was first looking into MF, I was thinking of a budget around £100-175 for a TLR. Then I discovered that the Rolleiflex TLRs command higher prices than that, so considered upping to around £200-250. Then I thought to myself: "If I am going to give this a try, I should really do it properly - I don't want to spend the time and effort and then only get holga results" and discovered the Hassy 500!

There is one on Ebay at the moment which is between £500-600.

I suppose ideally, I want to be spending between £200 and 300, but if people think that the Hasselblad 500 is WAY better than a TLR, I would consider upping my budget. Ebay is a risk though. I'd rather buy from a camera shop then I can see the thing in the flesh, but I'm not sure there are any retailers near to me.

I have seen this which is from a retailer, which would give me confidence:-
500ELM Complete by Hasselblad - Ffordes Photographic

The thing is that I would rather have the all-mechanical 500CM version, but they are much more expensive.

Just seen this which looks good too:-
http://www.ffordes.com/product/12111512313981

compur · Jan 4, 2013

As far as image quality goes you won't be hampered by using a properly working Yashica TLR with clean Yashinon lens. And, they sell very easily these days so you will have no trouble moving to another camera later if you wish.

Would a Hassy be better? Maybe, maybe not. That all depends on you. Frankly speaking both of these cameras will be better than any newby photographer in the beginning.

But, in any case I wouldn't recommend an ELM due to the battery issues with this camera.

birket · Jan 4, 2013

compur said:
But, in any case I wouldn't recommend an ELM due to the battery issues with this camera.

Yes - this was my main concern.

Mike_E · Jan 4, 2013

Like anything else, pick your lens and get the camera that fits it.

I went with Mamiya RB67s because I could afford more than one lens. As a matter of fact you can get a wide, medium and telephoto for the price of one Zeiss lens for a Hassy. But if I had it to do over, I'd just go with a large format and a roll film back as the weight and bulk of the RBs is about the same.

The cost of a LF setup with lenses is comparable to a Hassy setup with a couple of lenses.

Sorry to give you more to think about but if you're looking to have fun with it, Large Format is it!

amolitor · Jan 4, 2013

The Mamiya C series is truly excellent. The glass is superb, and it's the only (?) TLR system with interchangeable lenses. One of the really great bargains out there.

Also, you can rack the lens out forever, so you can shoot very very close up. The viewing lens becomes mostly worthless at this point, unless you use the handy little accessory that jacks the camera up and down, but it's damn cool. It's a very very flexible system.

birket · Jan 4, 2013

In the end, I have won the Yashica TLR camera for $150 (under £100 delivered from the states)! So, lets see what happens. Hopefully it will be in good order, but that is always difficult to assess on Ebay. Fingers crossed!

Now I need to find a source of B&W film for this.

birket · Jan 4, 2013

I am under the assumption that the meter battery will be dead in this camera. Reading this thread (Yashica Mat 124 Cleaning (4 of 4): Battery Replacement « Used Camera Database Blog) suggests that the battery should be a no longer available mercury battery rated at 1.4v. The battery is apparently a 625 battery. Can't I just use these:
6 x GP LR9 PX625A V625 PX625 PX13 M20 1.5v Batteries | eBay (though they say 1.5v)?

gsgary · Jan 4, 2013

Ive got a C220 and C330 brilliant cameras and they have changeable lenses something Rollei dont have

This is the C330 and 80mmF2.8 HP5 pushed from iso400 to iso1600 and stand developed in Rodinal for 2 hours

FP4

FP4 shot at F2.8

and a crop of above shot

nycphotography · Jan 4, 2013

Whats missing from the discussion so far is "what kinds of pictures to you envision yourself taking in MF"?

Studio? Models? Products? Street? Travel? Landscapes?

Tell us a scenario, a 5 to 7 sentence story maybe, of how YOU visualize shooting and processing and using the results.

It makes a big difference, I think, in what direction you go.

gsgary · Jan 4, 2013

amolitor said:
The Mamiya C series is truly excellent. The glass is superb, and it's the only (?) TLR system with interchangeable lenses. One of the really great bargains out there.

Also, you can rack the lens out forever, so you can shoot very very close up. The viewing lens becomes mostly worthless at this point, unless you use the handy little accessory that jacks the camera up and down, but it's damn cool. It's a very very flexible system.

Paramender :wink:

compur · Jan 4, 2013

birket said:
I am under the assumption that the meter battery will be dead in this camera. Reading this thread (Yashica Mat 124 Cleaning (4 of 4): Battery Replacement « Used Camera Database Blog) suggests that the battery should be a no longer available mercury battery rated at 1.4v. The battery is apparently a 625 battery. Can't I just use these:
6 x GP LR9 PX625A V625 PX625 PX13 M20 1.5v Batteries | eBay (though they say 1.5v)?

Yes, you can use one of the alkaline battery replacements. Their voltage is slightly higher than the mercury battery (1.5v vs 1.35v) that the meter was designed for so this may result in somewhat different readings. But it's unlikely to be noticed if using print film.

Or, you can use a Wein cell (WeinCell Batteries) instead which has a more accurate voltage. Or, another alternative is the MR-9 battery adapter.

birket · Jan 4, 2013

nycphotography said:
Whats missing from the discussion so far is "what kinds of pictures to you envision yourself taking in MF"?

Studio? Models? Products? Street? Travel? Landscapes?

Tell us a scenario, a 5 to 7 sentence story maybe, of how YOU visualize shooting and processing and using the results.

It makes a big difference, I think, in what direction you go.

A good question and something I forgot to include in my initial post.

photography to me is a bit like my taste in music - eclectic. I like strong, geometric compositions. I like to capture the texture of architecture - the materiality and structure. I like portrait shots - nothing formal or studio. Really just shots of my friends and family - candid rather than posed, though my daughter likes to pose sometimes. I like to go for walks in the woods and find interesting patterns in nature - creepers climbing up old trees for example. Traditional landscape is not something I have had much experience of, but I would like to push further. I like our dramatic, intensely chaotic British skies.

I am quite skilled in photoshop and I like to boost the contrast in my shots, probably more so than some would advise. Initially, I would imagine I would have a lab develop and scan my shots. I need to research the type of film to buy. I would imagine I will be shooting mainly black and white.
d
oes this help?